[ExI] Only Behavior? (Was Re: From Friendly AI to Loving AI)

Sat May 7 03:17:14 UTC 2011

Everyone always cracks me up, all this talk about "(behave as if he)" 
and so on.  Is there nothing beyond behavior that anyone is interested 
in yet?  What about the all the effing good stuff?  Is any of that 
mentioned in any of the books about the future of sex?  Or is it all 
just about lying behavior?

I was excited to see so much talk about BDSM, this is obviously a 
minority camp, and I pity the majority that are in for a big surprise 
when they fully find out how effing great true BDSM really is.  But 
still, for me, even only the "pair up BM robots with SD humans" is 
missing what is for me the real good stuff.  What gets me off mostly, 
being a switch, is knowing what it will feel like for someone doing 
something to me.  That kind of shared recursive awareness is way beyond 
anything purely behavioral.  I am so looking forward to effing what that 
is like to others, I bet most of you will be completely shocked, as any 
behavior, talking, or anything will never get close to what it is really 
like.

Fully sharing all this is still effingly impossible, you can still only 
know half of what is going on, only guessing   from the 'behavior' - 
really wondering if they are lying, if they are experiencing more or 
less than you ever knew was possible...  Is anyone interested in knowing 
such or what their partner is really experiencing?  Is their behavior 
all that matters to you?  Do you always want your partner to tell you 
what they need, via some behavior?  Or do you want to know, first hand, 
and not just experience half of it and guess the rest through behavior?

Stefano mentioned "or perhaps better..."

Might I ask what you imagine such to be?  I hope it's more than just 
behavior?

I imagine taking all these phenomenal pleasures, hard wired, like puppet 
strings by my primitive creator, making me do what it wanted me to do.  
I'm so pained that I must give up so much of what I want to do, in order 
to spend the time to get any of this, and giving up so much of the 
reverse, as I work to resist such, to be socially acceptable, and to get 
anything useful done at all.  I imagine rewiring all this great stuff to 
more powerfully in synch with everything I want to do, not all this 
gross waist of time, anti social stuff.  And not only that, I imagine 
getting my hands involved in designing and improving and hacking such 
phenomenal stuff, and pushing towards becoming omni phenomenal.  I bet 
there are things possible out there in nature trillions of times more 
than any human has come close to experiencing, even if you only stay 
with what some of the lessor animals must be experiencing when they do it.

Who cares about mindless behavior and programming such into ever more 
sophisticated behavior playback machines that are only behaving as if 
they are in love?

Why is everyone, especially transhumanists, so quick to miss what the 
expert consensus is telling us about what consciousness, sex, and effing 
really is, what it really means, and what sharing all that will be like 
in the near future?  (for more info see the new proposed opening part of 
the Representational Qualia camp statement here: 
http://canonizer.com/thread.asp/88/1/22/11 )  Is anyone else out there 
interested in more than just behavior?  It should would be nice to know, 
definitively.

Brent Allsop

P.S,  I'm watching how many of you respond with the popular completely 
clueless, primitive, and ignorant "Oh Gross, I don't want to know what 
my partner is experiencing and share what I'm experiencing..." most 
people respond to such talk with.  Seriously, I really want to know if 
anyone really gets any of this, and rigorously measure how much progress 
the experts are making at educating the rest of the world about what is 
about to be effing possible and what the world will be like 100 years 
from now.  That which you measure, improves, and if you have half a 
clue, please support the "Representational Qualia Camp" and help us 
educate the rest of the world.

On 5/6/2011 11:40 AM, spike wrote:
>
> >...*On Behalf Of *Stefano Vaj
> *Subject:* [ExI] From Friendly AI to Loving AI
>
> On 6 May 2011 08:23, Kelly Anderson <kellycoinguy at gmail.com 
> <mailto:kellycoinguy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >>...If you want a serious treatment of this subject, I highly recommend
> Love + Sex with Robots by David Levy... I suspect someone very soon 
> will combine robotics with the RealDoll,
> and create an extremely expensive, amazing device that will make the 
> moral majority very uncomfortable.
>
> Focus on this a minute.  If someone manages to create a sex machine 
> and the moral majority is squirmy about it, I ask them to show me in 
> their sacred literature exactly what commandment or principle or 
> ethical guideline is being violated by the whole notion.  Do let them 
> cite the example of Onan in Genesis 38:8-10, I'm ready, eager even, to 
> debate that.  Go ahead, I dare ya.  {8^D  Kelly, you are one who was 
> trained in that discipline (religion based morality.)  Pretend you are 
> still in that thought-space, and do suggest a line of argument that 
> there is AAAAANYTHING at all wrong with taking care of one's 
> biological needs using a sexbot.  Anything.  Bible only, no Mormon lit 
> please.  Be prepared; I have pondered this long and hard, and I find 
> nothing, nada.  {8^D  {8-]
>
>
> >...This makes me think of the debate endlessly resurfacing on the 
> poorly-defined and somewhat contradictory idea "friendly AIs".  ...If 
> he or she is not bound to (behave as if he) be sexually attracted by 
> you, there is little point in having one around just as a sex toy when 
> your chances are just the same with a fellow human being. Or perhaps 
> better... :-)-- Stefano Vaj
>
> For a remarkable Hollywood treatment of this topic, see West World:
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070909/
>
> That was made nearly 40 years ago, but it was a fun romp, not a comedy 
> but not really a terror drama either; rather it was thought provoking, 
> and way ahead of its time.  It has so many elements we yak on about 
> today: AGI, friendly evolving to unfriendly, sexbots, good kick and 
> stomp with Yul Brenner doing a convincing job as a proto-Data, lots of 
> good visuals for those of us who appreciate early to mid 1970s fashion.
>
> spike
>
>
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