[ExI] Money and Human Nature (was Re: Capitalism, anti capitalism, emotional arousal)

[spike]

From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Giovanni
Santostasi
.

>.Money is merely a tool that frees us from the burden of finding barter
partners.

 

Tools help us do useful work.  Useful work is good, therefore money is good.

 

 

 

>. Some island systems in Tonga and Tahiti
as well as some hunter gatherer cultures allegedly got past ownership,
and simply shared all they had.

 

 

Ja.  In what critical way do those island cultures differ from ours?  And
differ from Europe and everywhere else for that matter.  Answer: those
cultures are as close to being an enormous family as anywhere on the globe.
In families we do share everything.  Not toothbrushes, but everything else.

 

 

>. You can't really effectively get rid of money without also getting rid of
the concept
of ownership.

 

Well, sorta.  The government gets rid of my money, while keeping the concept
of ownership.  Specifically their ownership of my money.

 

 

>.A true and full form of collectivism, where we become the Borg, where
we lose all individuality and ego is the only alternative to money
that really makes any sense.

 

How is the Borg fundamentally different from our culture?  See above.

 



>.I get the idea that most of the people on this list are fierce
individualists, and want to remain as individuals. So I don't think,
in the end, many of the list members will go along with "let's get rid
of money"...

 

That depends on whose money you are proposing to get rid of.  Your money?
OK.  Mine?  Nein.  I have spent a lifetime struggling for my money and I
don't want to get rid of it.  On the other hand, I have not spent a lifetime
struggling for your money.  So I have no problem with your getting rid of
yours.  That's your business.  Unless of course you get rid of yours and
subsequently need some of mine.  I will not let you starve.  Then it becomes
my business.

 



>. Money is a much more primitive beast than that.

 

Some of my favorite beasts are primitive.



>> I think human nature is the problem.

>.Here Dave is clearly onto something... :-)  But how much of our human
nature do we really want to give up? Are we really better off without
anger? 

 

Ja I think so.

 

 

>.Are we better off without jealousy?

 

Ja I think so.

 

 

>. Could we throw out religion? -Kelly

 

Depends on what you mean by "we."  I have thrown out my religion.  You may,
with my encouragement, throw out yours.  But there are powerful forms of
religion today which resist being thrown out.  If you try to throw out that
religion, it will likely throw out you.  Permanently.

 

Good questions all, Kelly.

 

spike

 

 

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