[ExI] [universalimmortalism] We need some new energy!

Tue Aug 7 04:07:08 UTC 2012

Hi David,

I completely agree with you, that we need more energy, and more 
believers, or converts, if you will.  We can't do anything, alone.  The 
bottom line is, many people have mistaken working hypothosis, so are 
pushing in the wrong direction, or failing to push in the right 
direction.  It's simply  a matter of they lack proper moral knowledge, 
and are thereby not choosing what they really want.

Most cryonicists think the arguments that converted them, will convert 
everyone else, and spout mostly just that.  I think that is another big 
problem, as everyone is very different.  You've got to fully understand 
and work within the current beliefs of others, before you can hope to 
help them see something better.

Also, in my opinion, I think you are grossly mistaken, and wasting 
significant amounts on any efforts towards "reversal of aging", which 
will basically get us nothing.  (i.e. we'll still have accidents that 
will kill us, and all the other problems that go along with having a 
primitive dumb minimalistic brain, even if it doesn't age.)

We simply need to discover what consciousness is, and then duplicate it, 
and copy it trillians of times - solving ALL of our problems, not just 
curing some trivial aging problem of some soon to be very outdated and 
primitive platform we're all about to completely abandon.  Any work 
spent on that is a complete immoral waist of time, in my opinion.

Again, in my opinion, your mistaken beliefs are killing us, and many 
others, because it causes you to waste time on the wrong thing.

The  bottom line is, we've got to amplify the moral intelligence and 
wisdom of everyone (maybe I'm morally mistaken also?), so everyone can 
intelligently make the right choices.

And the best way to do that is first, find out what everyone currently 
does believe, and value, and why.  Then you need to give everyone the 
ability to survey their chosen experts, to see what they say we should 
do (experts, no matter who, will always be more intelligent than lay 
populations.)  And we need to measure for what people believe, and know 
why, so we can better convert them, from within their reference, or set 
of values.  In other words, we need to provide a way for all the experts 
to measure for how well their arguments are working, or not, and find 
out what it would take to convert people to better behavior, using their 
current values, not ours, sooner, and focus on getting that.

In other words, everything we're trying to do at canonizer.com.

By the way, check out the new "Amplifying the  Wisdom of the Crowd: 
Building, and Measuring for Expert and Moral Consensus" paper by James 
Carol, linked to on the front page of Canaonizer.com.

It's all about knowing, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone else 
wants.   And   measuring that, so it can improve. If the experts can 
measure all that, concisely and quantitatively, for everyone,  then 
improving it and eventually getting it all, for and with everyone will 
be trivial.

As long as people believe they want to die, or never age in some 
primitive platform, that's where we'll continue to be heading.  I know 
what it will take to convince me, I'm already converted.  The question 
is, what do you currently believe, and what will it take to convert you, 
and everyone else, or visa versa?

Brent Allsop

On 8/6/2012 5:35 PM, david pizer wrote:
> Developing the technology to allow the reversal of aging to permit 
> virtual physical immortality is the _ultimate goal_ of most cryonicists.
> Many of us believe that technology may be within the laws of physics 
> but it may be centuries before we humans control that technology.
> _So the next best thing_ would be to create cryopreservation 
> technology now that would allow patients to be prepared so well (at 
> legal death) that doctors in the future can revive them. Most of us 
> believe that advanced cryopreservation technology is possible but that 
> we are not there now. You and I may suffer legal death before that 
> advanced cryopreservation technology is perfected.
> _So the logical question should be_ - How can we speed up the 
> development of reversible suspended animation technology now?
> The answer is that we need more resources.
> To get more resources faster we need to convince more people that 
> cryopreservation is possible and encourage them to want to make it 
> happen and to join with us now. It is through more membership that 
> more resources will become available. Larger membership is the key to 
> faster development of technology. More members means more money, more 
> volunteer labor, more public acceptance.
> So for those people who are reading this and who want to increase 
> their odds of surviving death you need to ask yourself if you are 
> doing everything you can to bring more resources to the 
> cryopreservation movement?
> I would like to see some meaningful discussion on what other 
> cryoncists are doing to help us reach our goals and what you think we 
> should be doing now that we are not doing now.
> David Pizer
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