[ExI] Manning and Assange

[spike]

From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Stefano Vaj
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 3:02 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [ExI] Manning and Assange

 

On 22 August 2012 19:04, Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com> wrote:

>.It's not that clear cut.  The oath (undertaking) for military service
requires you to obey *lawful* orders.  If a military superior ordered
you to keep quiet about a murder is that a lawful order?

 

No!  Not even close.

 

I have a colleague who related the story of something that happened when he
was in the navy.  He was a radio technician, in the navigation room working
on the intercom.  The boss of that area was a Seaman First Class, who ran
all the metrology equipment.  The navigator, a First Lieutenant, was present
in that room when the Seaman First started saying the depth was reading way
lower than expected.  They were steaming up a river on the US east coast,
don't recall the name.  The Navigator told him to check his instruments, but
the Seaman First kept insisting that they were in waters too shallow for
that ship (a destroyer) which meant they must be off course, meaning the
Navigator screwed up.  He became agitated and raised his voice, telling the
SFirst to shut up and check his instruments, who kept insisting the readings
were too low.  

 

My colleague who was a 19 yr old Seaman 3rd, was near panic, seeing a Seaman
First arguing with a First Lieutenant, which can be interpreted as mutiny.
He didn't know what to do, so he opened a comm line to the bridge, so the
Old Man was up there listening to all this, with the Lieutenant angrily
telling the tech to shut up.  The disagreement escalated in the next several
minutes until they heard a soft cuuush cuuush. cuuush.. as the ship scraped
bottom.  There was a terrified pause, at which time they heard the engines
reverse full.  The Seaman First said "Congratulations sir, you just ran us
aground." 

 

Right then, the door slammed open and the First Mate was standing there, and
Teeeen HUT!  The Lt Commander pointed to the Navigator and the technician
and said "YOU!  YOU!  Report to the bridge, immediately."   Those two left
forthwith.  The commander, on his way out, pointed to the radioman (my
colleague) and ordered "Go to your quarters immediately, stay there until
called, don't talk to anyone."  He choked out a terrified "SIR YES SIR"
which were the last words he uttered for the next several hours.  T here he
was in his quarters under orders to not talk, so he didn't.  Orders are
orders.

 

He was astonished when an ensign showed up carrying him a plate of food.  An
OSSIFER, bringing a tiny microscopic Seaman Third a plate of food!  He
thought it must be some surreal nightmare, for he was still under orders to
not talk, so he didn't, not even to thank the Ensign.

 

About an hour after that, they called him to the bridge, so here he was
among a group of men who had the authority to have him thrown overboard head
first, being asked to describe what happened in the navigation room.

 

The destroyer steamed back out to sea, apparently with no damage, and a
helicopter came down the next morning, dropped off a new navigator and took
away the old one, who they never saw again.  They heard the navigator was
charged in court martial with issuing an illegal order, shouting at the tech
to shut up.  He was likely sent back to a desk job somewhere.  My colleague
marveled that he had received essentially the same orders in a different
context from the first mate, but those orders were legal, and he damn well
followed them.

 

So the point of all this is that a soldier or sailor must recognize the
difference between legal orders and illegal ones.  To witness a war crime
and not report it is a war crime.

 

spike

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