[ExI] anarchy

Adrian Tymes atymes at gmail.com
Mon Jun 6 21:39:19 UTC 2016


On Jun 6, 2016 1:32 PM, "Dan TheBookMan" <danust2012 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 6, 2016 12:22 PM, "Dan TheBookMan" <danust2012 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> As for predation -- which I take as your real concern here -- why
couldn't
> >> people defend against this and also coordinate for their defense
against this?
> >
> > Said coordination is a government.
>
> No, it's not -- unless you're going to define government so broadly that
you helping stop someone from being raped makes me a government, in which
case, what the hell would anarchy be?

You not telling the rapist to stop, for starters.  There are quite a few
places on Earth, including some in the USA, where a lot of men believe that
women should not have the right to say no to sex with them.  They would be
entirely honest in stating that they believe someone else stopping them is
constraining their liberties, and they would support anarchy as allowing
them to have sex with whomever they can and wish to get their penis into.

> > It involves some people saying what
> > others should do, rather than everyone just doing whatever they want.
>
> People can't do whatever they want under anarchy. After all, by the two
(not sole) principles I offered, no one has a right to rule anyone else.
What that means in practice is you can't treat others as tools -- raping,
killing, enslaving, stealing from, etc. Those would mean ruling over
someone else, no?

What do you do when some try to use others as tools despite the mutual
agreement?  Either someone constrains others' liberty to do this, in which
case that someone is a government, or predation like this happens.

Remember, predators have rights too.  And many predators seek to use and
twist their rights to protect their predation, so far as it works.

What if you and I claim a newly discovered gold mine, that is too small to
share or otherwise can not be divided?  Who says which of us gets it?  And
what if we conspire to make it seem like this is the debate, while hiding
or destroying all evidence that it actually belongs to some third party?
If anyone complains we're stealing, we just twist the debate and show that
we're not stealing from each other, loudly asserting this and refusing to
acknowledge the notion that we could be stealing from anyone else (because
we're not stealing...from each other).

> In many, probably most social coordinations, there's no one telling
someone else what to do. I'm walking down the sidewalk, for instance, and
someone is coming down the same sidewalk. I move to my right and they to
theirs. No one told us what to do here. There wasn't a cop involved or no
session of the legislature debated and legislated on this.

And if the other person is from a culture where one moves left, and sees
your move as aggressively blocking that other person's progress?
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