[ExI] Security clearances

spike spike66 at att.net
Sun May 15 06:00:29 UTC 2016



From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf
Of Anders Sandberg
Subject: Re: [ExI] Security clearances


On 2016-05-14 23:06, spike wrote:


Anders, this might be the only time this ever happens: I disagree with much
or most of what you posted (I left it in, below.)

Cool. And mildly frightening. 

Little evidence they work: very much on the contrary sir.  I might not say
anything more on that topic other than I disagree.

Would there be any way to actually document this fact? Anders Sandberg




Sure, but I would be far more comfortable with it if we can go back to WW2.
The allies broke the Nazi codes, but they had to keep secret the fact that
they had done it.  Plenty of people knew about it at Bletchley Park and some
over on this side of the pond, but this would be a perfect example of a SAR
program.  We know they did an excellent job of keeping that secret.  Those
with SAR badges followed the gentle suggestion of this poster:




A lot of people knew what had happened at Bletchley and a lot of people shut
it and kept it shut.  How was that done?


Anders, the process works.


To your other points, we know that this process works if it filters out
plenty of good capable people who should have been cleared.  But these are
sacrificed to cleanse the system of those few who would have leaked what
happened at Bletchley.  We know that the process tends to keep military-ey
types.  We get that.  These military-ey types are hard to define, but you
know one when you see one.  We know that offices with only those type people
are not big fun offices.  


I worked in an office like that for many years, doing interesting work, but
this kind of place would never get together for something like a pool party
for instance.  They seldom would even go out to a bar after hours; too much
risk of accidentally saying something which shouldn't be uttered outside the
SCIF (and if something was said, the person saying it would have to
self-report, and those who heard it would have to report it, and the talker
better hope to hell the stories agreed perfectly or his clearance is a
fading memory.)  It was a highly disciplined no-nonsense kind of workplace.
Interesting work compensated for the lack of silliness; richly compensated
for it.  There are terrific opportunities for learning cool stuff such as
advanced physics right there while doing one's job.  It wasn't a leaky
office.  The company treated those people well; turnover was very low.


How to document it?  I don't know.  Do we have any evidence that anyone
inside at Bletchley Park talked?  We have evidence that Klaus Fuchs from Los
Alamos leaked, but I think that was after the program was already well
along.  Roosevelt told Joe Stalin after he had already heard that Joe Stalin
had been briefed by a spy at Los Alamos, but then-VP Harry Truman had not
received any word on what was going on with the A-bomb program.


What other big-secret programs do we have that are now public domain?  Oh
how about that caper where the US recovered a commie submarine?  Is there
any evidence that the Glomar Explorer was leaked?










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