[ExI] Children’s Rights

Fri Nov 16 17:44:28 UTC 2018

Any speculations please?

spike

It turns out that there 'cultures' created by children - I  don't know how
many - ask a sociologist or developmental psychologist.  There are all
sorts of rules as to what is appropriate and what isn't.  And they may be
passed on to the next class by observation.  So a 7th grader leaves the
grammar school culture and enters the prehigh school culture.  The language
is different.  The attitude towards the other sex is different, and so on.
Unfortunately they pass on a lot of false information, particularly about
sex.  You simply would not believe what my college kids believed, or at
least were exposed to, as they told me.

To the topic of violence, perhaps they changed the culture.  The school may
have had an influence, but mainly they did it themselves.  Outside
influences from teachers and parents particularly unwelcome.

Girls did it as well as boys.  What was in or what was out was determined
by the leaders in the class.  Wear the wrong thing and you were exiled and
shunned.

You need a developmental psychologist for this and I am not one.

bill w

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 11:21 AM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:

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> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On Behalf
> Of *SR Ballard
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] Children’s Rights
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> If we are moving away from a physically violent culture I'd like to see
> the data.  (yes, don't send me a link to Pinker's book - that's worldwide
> and we are talking about individuals)
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> bill w
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> >…I’m not even sure how to provide data on something for that, since it’s
> based on changing cultural perceptions.
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> >…For example what I got away with doing at school versus what it seems
> like the consequences now are for those same actions.
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> >…SR Ballard
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> The kinds of data we might be able to get would be suspensions from school
> for fighting.  We realize that any little scuffle is now classified as a
> fight, whereas back in my day (imagine voice characteristics of the two
> wisecracking geezers in the balcony from the Muppet Show) a full on balled
> fist punch fest was a minor scuffle, so long as it failed to meet at least
> one of three criteria: at least one broken bone, at least one lost tooth or
> at least one drop of blood on the ground.  Without meeting something on
> that short list, no score.
>
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> If the combatants were female, then torn clothing could qualify (the girls
> tended to tear off each others’ clothing rather than honest fisticuffs,
> which always drew a huge enthusiastic audience.  If the combatants were
> approximately the same size, no disciplinary action was necessary.
>
>
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> Unfortunate for the victim: in the case of a criminal assault, generally
> both the miscreant and the victim were charged as equal combatants in the
> case of an unprovoked attack.  Usually aggressor and victim shared the same
> punishment (gory details available on request.)
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> Those kinds of fights happened with a frequency of every few weeks while I
> was in the lower grades.
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> Now: poof!  Gone.  This is a great surprise to me that such a problem I
> long considered ordinary human nature underwent such fundamental change.
>
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> We can get records of school suspensions if you know how to get to them
> (which are public domain in California if the punishment includes an
> invitation to leave the campus for 3 or more days.)
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> My son went thru kindergarten thru 6th grade at the same school.  In that
> entire time, he never witnessed even a scuffle.  I personally was involved
> in three of these, and I am a very peaceful sort.  In the seven years he
> was at that school, there was exactly one suspension, and this was for a
> fight that occurred off campus with no third party witnesses!  (Why the
> hell the school thought it needed to be involved in that is a mystery to
> me.)
>
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> Somehow… schools figured out how to get boys to stop fighting.  Had they
> even asked me before I witnessed it, I would have offered incorrect advice:
> forget it, fighting is human nature, you can’t change it, let em fight,
> sweep up the debris afterwards.  I was wrong: they changed that.
>
>
>
> Any speculations please?
>
>
>
> spike
>
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>
>
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