[ExI] The Thirty Meter Telescope is now officially dead

[SR Ballard]

I don’t understand why you are completely unwilling to take people’s feelings into account. Failing to do that is a major component of the resistance to science. Pure logic does not get the majority of people to change their opinion, personal emotional appeals do that.

The failure of yourself and people like you to understand the emotions at play are a HUGE part of anti-science sentiment. The other factor is ignorance.

You are doing nothing but boring us by repeating something we already know you believe. Why say it again? What good does it do? You, also, are being overly emotional.

Why should the Hawaiian protesters allow anything if they feel the person (people / system) doing it to them is not respecting them? I wouldn’t allow a doctor to study me or a teacher to tutor me if they disrespected me. 

SR Ballard

> On Dec 23, 2019, at 6:38 AM, John Clark via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 9:30 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
>>> >> As I said, explaining that some native Hawaiians are behaving in a stupid barbaric and parochial way today now due to something that happened in 1893 may be true but it doesn't make the current behavior one bit less stupid barbaric and parochial.
>> 
>> > As I wrote, 1893 is just one of the early dates. And my point was that this was not literally centuries ago.
> 
> I don't care if it happened yesterday because explaining why somebody is stupid barbaric and parochial does not make them one bit less stupid barbaric and parochial. 
>  
>>> >> And I still don't understand why westerners learning less about the universe will make up for an injustice committed by them in 1893. I hope you don't think only westerners would have any interest in such things.
>> 
>> 
>> > I’m not sure it would,
> 
> Well I'm very sure it would NOT! The Hawaiian protestor's motto seems to be "we will keep humanity from acquiring new knowledge until they respect us", and that motto will work just about as well as another motto, "The beatings will continue until morale improves".
>  
>> > but my post was about trying to understand the history
> 
> Why what's the point? You could know all there is to know about their history and understand exactly why they behave as they do, but at the end of the day they're still stupid barbaric and parochial, the only difference is that now after all that study you know why they're stupid barbaric and parochial.
>  
>> > these invaders might go further and class you as a barbarians, part of an ignorant mob
> 
> I make absolutely NO apology for calling a group of people who destroyed a magnificent monument to the better nature of the Human race like the Thirty Meter Telescope and shut down the world's premiere optical observatory for nearly 2 months for the first time in over half a century because astronomers feared for their lives a ignorant barbaric parochial mob.  
> 
>>  > Would that argument sway you? I’m guessing it wouldn’t.
> 
> I don't think any argument of mine would sway that ignorant barbaric mob, at least not an argument based on logic. A cock and bull story about another invisible man who was more powerful and wanted more telescopes might work, but I'm not very good at concocting such tales. 
>   
>> > The main issues here for me are the colonization and the justice ones. That seems to be what you’re missing.
> 
> What I'm missing is understanding how preventing the Human race from better understanding its place in the universe can ameliorate a past injustice, nor can I understand why so many people who like to think of themselves as forward thinking and enlightened have a knee jerk reaction to defend the evil forces of the anti-enlightenment, provided of course that it's not part of their own culture. By the way, I don't use the word "evil" a lot but I think it's appropriate in this case.
>  
>> > You’re setting aside, again, as if science is a card that trumps all other concerns.
> 
> It sure as hell trumps the concern that an invisible man on a mountain will be annoyed by a telescope!
> 
> John K Clark
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