[ExI] Mental Phenomena
johnkclark at gmail.com
Thu Feb 6 15:11:19 UTC 2020
On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 6:05 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> *I'm trying to say something closer to qualia and qualia behavior are
> the same thing. *
I think that's a good guess and an excellent operational hypothesis, but
we'll never prove it's true because, just like Evolution, the Scientific
Method can not observe qualia, it can only observe behavior. Nevertheless I
embrace that operational hypothesis and even elevate it to the level of an
axiom despite the lack of a proof and despite my inability to detect qualia
in anything other than in myself. And that's the only reason I don't think
rocks experience qualia, and that's the only reason I think you do.
*> If the behavior isn't changing, and qualia are changing*
That is contradictory. If "qualia and qualia behavior are the same thing"
and if "behavior isn't changing" then qualia isn't changing either.
*> that changing qualia must be some place else.*
And I don't know what you mean by that.
> > *if you substitute all behavior (or function or magic or anything),
> with something that is different, and the qualia never change, *
Brent, the only way you have of knowing that "qualia never change" is by
making use of a unproven operational hypothesis that makes use of behavior.
> *> qualia are impossible, or at best not approachable via science.*
I agree. But I know for a fact that qualia are NOT impossible because I
know I have them, I can directly experience qualia in myself; therefore I
must conclude that the second part of the above is true, qualia is "not
approachable via science", or at least it's not without making use of an
axiom that like all axioms remains unproven. Or to put it another way, I
believe it's a brute fact that qualia is the way data feels when it is
being processed intelligently.
John K Clark
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