[ExI] Mental Phenomena

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at gmail.com
Mon Jan 6 05:08:54 UTC 2020

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 9:59 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 15:26, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> Hi Ben,
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  >When we experience red, there are lots of other physical memories and
>>> things computationally bound to that elemental redness, just as you
>>> pointed out.
>>> No, I didn't. I was pointing out that 'elemental redness' literally
>>> doesn't mean anything, as far as I can see. You seem to think it does.
>>> Please explain that. Just that, without any of the other stuff. What do
>>> you mean by 'elemental redness'?
>> When you experience a redness quality, when you are dreaming or not,
>> there must be something, that is that redness quality you are
>> experiencing.  My redness could be like your greenness, either naturally,
>> or engineered to be that way.  You claim glutamate could function
>> identically to glycine, but that physical difference is the point.  If you
>> engineered someone to be identical to you, except that person swapped all
>> redness/glutamate with glycine/grenness, and visa versa, you would function
>> identically, but qualitatively your knowledge would be physically
>> different.  My redness would be like your grenness.
> If you swapped glutamate for glycine and glutamate receptors for glycine
> receptors, then the redness and greenness qualia would remain the same, as
> I thought you (almost) agreed in an earlier discussion with me. This is
> assuming that the neurotransmitters and receptors only do what we know them
> to do; if glutamate has other effects, like its breakdown products
> stimulating other neurons, then there might be a difference.

Again, when we experience a point of redness experience, there must be
something, physical, that is that point of physical redness colorness
If this physical redness colorness property changes to a grenness
experience, there must be something physical, that does all the
corresponding changes to the entire system.  When you say: "if glutamate
has other effects..." then the glutamate theory works.  If there are no
global effects, and no computer binding is being accomplished, it must be
something else.  Again, replace whatever else you want, with glutamate, and
the appropriate binding system, so one can have a composite qualitative
experience of at least two colors like redness and grenness.
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