[ExI] that's why

[Dylan Distasio]

I agree, Bill.  I'd love to see what this replacement would look like.  I
am no fan of the police by any stretch of the imagination but I also
acknowledge their utility.   I'm curious to see what Minneapolis will look
like if the council gets its way in completely disbanding the police force
(and not replacing it with a reformed one).

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 3:59 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> As usual, Dan, you offer to get rid of something but do not supply
> anything to replace it to deal with crime.
>
> Spike, I think, pointed out that the cops who were with the accused one
> were trainees - a reasonable, though not valid, reason why they didn't try
> to stop it, remark on it, or anything.
>
> bill w
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 2:45 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 8, 2020, at 10:16 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone run the statistics to see just how widespread police brutality
>> is?  Just guessing:  probably way less than 1% in police-public
>> interactions.
>>
>> Defunding police:  exactly the wrong thing to do.  I don't know what
>> their thinking is on this, but we need more, not less:  1 - better pay
>> equals better people applying for jobs, 2 - they need to hire or somehow
>> fund the mental health workers I mentioned in my previous email  3 - they
>> need more time for training 4 - they need to hire consultants to
>> restructure police departments and training.  Probably more good reasons.
>> Defunding could lower cop pay.  It punishes the 99% plus majority of cops
>> who are never brutal.  (again, I do not know the statistics)
>>
>>
>> It's hard to track brutality because much of this stuff is quashed at the
>> local level. I mean the stories and reports are quashed at that level. And
>> until recently, there weren't the kinds of databases one comes to expect
>> from other government operations.
>>
>> I can't imagine why anyone would think there's a need for more police.
>> Overall, violent and property crime has declined since the early 1990s. So,
>> if the argument is there's ever more need for policing (to combat crimes of
>> violence and property), this flies in the face of the crime data. (And this
>> trend is both national and global. Yes, there are exceptions, but the US
>> and the West are not exceptional with this trend.)
>>
>> As for how to penalize police misconduct, the problem goes further than,
>> say, a bad apple in the bunch. The recent George Floyd case illustrates the
>> typical police brutality narrative: one cop does wrong and the other cops
>> on the scene do nothing to prevent or stop the wrong. They simply allow it
>> to play out. In this case, yes, the other cops were charged, but that's
>> what's atypical about the case. The usual case seems to be: one or more
>> cops brutalize someone, the others look on, and they all face no penalties
>> for misconduct.
>>
>> Training and such also has little value if the incentives for misconduct
>> remain in place. And all this depends on buy-in from the police, their
>> unions, pro-cop groups, and pro-cop politicians. My guess is most of these
>> reforms will be minuscule and more along the lines of making the protests
>> die down before things return to business as usual. This is why abolition
>> is the best approach: excise the problem rather than try to manage it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dan
>>    Sample my Kindle books at:
>>
>> http://author.to/DanUst
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