[ExI] Essential Upload Data

Ben ben at zaiboc.net
Sat May 23 21:30:14 UTC 2020

On 23/05/2020 14:38, Re Rose wrote:
> Magical thinking is NOT involved in my descriptions. I think it is 
> magical thinking to imagine that your consciousness will leap over 
> into another, separate agent that has a copy of your neural data. No 
> one yet has said /how/ that will happen, even though I have asked that 
> question a grillion, maybe even a brillion times to this list. That's 
> a lot of times.

This is a straw-man argument. Nobody thinks that your consciousness 
'leaps over' into a separate agent, any more than Beethovens 9th 'leaps 
over' into a new CD recording of it. The point is that the separate 
agent is already your consciousness, by means of being the /same 
information/. You might be asking a made-up numerical quantity of times 
meant to convey 'a lot', how it will happen, but you are ignoring the 

When you say:
"I believe making a copy is not possible, and that a "good enough" 
copy is not "good enough" if your consciousness cannot access it."

You are missing the point entirely. What do you think a consciousness 
is, if not the information that is being duplicated? Your language 
implies that someone's consciousness, their mind, is a separate thing 
from the duplicated information. This is not the idea. It's like saying 
that the digital marks on a CD are not the music, and that the music has 
to 'access' the marks after they have been made.

"... within non-linear systems that have multiple possible equilibria 
but are in a specific equilibria. These become de-entrained (exactly as 
they do during aging process, but farther away from equilibria) and 
without initial boundary conditions it will not be possible for them to 
become re-entrained in the same equilibria. That essential  information 
is not copiable, and cannot be retrieved."

You'll have to give some specific examples of what you mean by this, or 
I can't make any sense of it.

It seems you disagree when I said we'd already discussed, and disposed 
of, the 'information in the body' issue as being either totally 
irrelevant or easily solvable. So let's revisit that, and decide whether 
specific and exact individual somatic information is important for an 
upload or not.

And I'd really like to know your answer to the 'amoeba' question. If 
someone's complete body and brain were duplicated in exactly the same 
way that an amoeba duplicates itself, who do you think the two resulting 
people would be? Two completely new people, or two versions of the same 
person? Has the original person died? Or is there some other interpretation?

Ben Zaiboc

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