[ExI] owwwww, dang

Sat Oct 31 18:31:54 UTC 2020

This should have been on the other list.  bill w

On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 1:22 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 3:00 PM spike jones via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> > From: John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ExI] owwwww, dang
> > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:54 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh this is grim.  Sigh
> >
> > Yes, we very clearly haven't "rounded the corner", so why does Trump's
> > repeated lying about something this important not bother you?
> >
> > John K Clark
> >
> > Because I don’t view a US president as a doctor or in control of world
> > governments.  I don’t blame whoever is the prime minister of France
> > for their current catastrophe.  I don’t care what politicians say or do
> > regarding viruses: they aren’t in charge of that.
>
> I think one can blame Trump for knowing about the likelihood -- he was
> warned -- of a pandemic back in December and then basically ignoring
> it and then even downplaying it for months after it became obvious
> COVID-19 was serious. This isn't about what legal powers he had. It's
> about what he did as a person with a global audience, including
> millions who seem to fawn over him. He used that influence not to warn
> people or at least prepare them for the likelihood of something big,
> but to mock those who were trying to do something and then to lay any
> blame elsewhere.
>
> One can also blame him and his minions for negligently spreading the
> virus at the Rose Garden and other events. This was at a point where
> it should've been common knowledge that such events would be risky.
>
> If you have a hard time grasping that -- or if you're going to pretend
> you have a hard time grasping it -- imagine Trump were a news
> anchorman on a news channel you don't like. Let's say CNN -- since
> you've said you get mainstream political news from it and then seemed
> to deny getting it from there. And let's say the virus is Ebola and
> this is right before the Ebola outbreak. So there's this anchorman
> Trump on a news channel you hate and for some reason people listen to
> him. And he knows they listen to him. They trust him. So, he tells
> them, appearing to be honest, that Ebola isn't deadly or a risk at
> all. And he encourages people to travel to Ebola hot zones. And
> further he tells them if they get sick with Ebola, they should chew
> licorice. And many people take his advice, travel to hot zones, get
> sick, chew licorice, and die, including teenagers and younger children
> who adored Trump. Tens of thousands more than actually died during the
> outbreak.
>
> Still with me? Now, how would you feel about anchorman Trump? Would
> you say he did absolutely nothing wrong? He was blameless? Or does he
> share some blame for spreading falsehoods?
>
> > The only political leader I really blame (a lot) is President Xi, who
> made
> > the political decision to cover up the new virus, which caused it to get
> > loose.  Not one single other political leader at any level, not one US
> > state, not one US county, not one nation anywhere including the
> > isolated and sparsely populated island of New Zealand was able to
> > stop this virus, none.
>
> Taiwan seems to have done well. Aside from that, one can blame Xi and
> blame Trump. Again, ignoring the problem, then downplaying it, and
> finally
>
> > Politicians are not our salvation.  They are not able to stop this virus
> > because viruses pay no attention to law.  In the US, there is no legal
> > top-down leadership structure available to stop a contagion.  The
> > federal government can close down air traffic to some extent, but
> > that doesn’t help really once the virus is already here.  The US has
> > functionally open borders anyway, legal or otherwise.  There is no
> >closing borders to viruses.  We can damage economies trying if you
> > wish, but your state has shown that lockdowns don’t really help.  You
> > do realize John that your own state demonstrated that lockdowns
> > don’t really help, ja?
>
> I'm for really open borders, but 2019-nCoV spreads through close
> contact or contact with droplets. It doesn't swoop through the air
> over long distances, AFAIK. In effect, the main vector for global
> spread has been humans. (Maybe dogs and cats are involved too.) So, if
> people with it don't come into contact -- even indirect contact via
> infected countertops or cough droplets -- with people who aren't
> infected, the latter aren't going to get it, right? (Of course, the
> big problem is asymptomatic people spreading it. That's tougher,
> though minimizing contact between people intuitively would seem to
> solve that, no?)
>
> > Governments cannot help here.  The US government has no legal
> > authority to do the kinds of things some other countries did (which
> > didn’t work anyway.)  It cannot be done legally here, not even a
> > nation-wide mask mandate.  There is no legal means whereby an
> > executive order or anything the federal government demands (other
> > than taxes) would be applicable to the individual citizen.  Government
> > is not your salvation or mine.  You are your salvation.  I am
> > my salvation.  Personal responsibility is the way.
>
> Legality is more of an issue for legal eagles and also for the courts
> to decide. (In other words, what's legal is whatever those in power
> say is legal -- added that enough of the rest of people acquiesce. And
> acquiesce is the norm. For instance, look at the awe many hold the
> Supreme Court in. Or the Constitution. That awe is a measure of how
> low they'll bow and how often their knees will touch the ground before
> they'll rebel.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>   Sample my Kindle books via:
> http://author.to/DanUst
>
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