[ExI] libertarian city - from Quora

[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 08:31, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:19 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 07:57, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 2:33 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Under anarchism the people run the services themselves rather than have
>>>> them imposed from above.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How is that even possible?  Unless literally everyone is involved in all
>>> the services, which is impossible even for a few dozen people, the services
>>> will by definition be "imposed" on anyone not running them, if they are to
>>> work at all.
>>>
>>> Firefighting: if your house is next to mine and on fire, then my house
>>> is at danger of catching fire.  If I'm a firefighter and you're not, then I
>>> "impose" my service on you to save my house.  (Or I don't, and let your
>>> house burn to the ground, thus rendering the firefighting service
>>> ineffective.)
>>>
>>> Roads: if I build a road from my house to town, it goes by your house,
>>> and you are not otherwise involved, I have "imposed" my road upon you.
>>>
>>> Health: pandemics don't care if you've opted in or not.  If you're
>>> infected and you're my neighbor, you need to be treated before I get sick -
>>> and vice versa.
>>>
>>> Police: if you have opted not to subscribe to the protection of the law,
>>> people are free to impose force upon you, and will do so (if they think the
>>> police really won't protect you) regardless of your alleged rights.  It
>>> doesn't matter how many guns you have.
>>>
>>
>> The idea is that collectives run things rather than those specially
>> endowed with capital or power. Those who don’t want to participate or
>> follow the rules are excluded from society. The point is that anarchism
>> does not mean disorder, it means an elimination of hierarchical power
>> structures. But maybe it doesn’t  work and hierarchies run things better.
>>
>
> It doesn't work at all.  All four of those examples are cases where you
> can not have both functioning institutions/infrastructure and the presence
> of anyone who is excluded from society.  In each case, you would have to
> physically remove the excluded person (and thus apply force without their
> consent) or kill them (and thus apply force without their consent) in order
> for those who opted into the institution/infrastructure to be able to use
> them.  In other words, the mere presence of one who has opted out is
> essentially an application of force against those who opted in.
>

Yes, you would have to apply force without consent, because a society
couldn’t work otherwise. You couldn’t have basic things such as cars and
roads if some people decided that they don’t have to stop at a red light.
But the force would not be applied by police at the request of a king,
president or wealthy person. The difference is in who makes the rules and,
as a general principle, that the rules will the minimum required.

> --
Stathis Papaioannou
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