[ExI] libertarian city - from Quora

[William Flynn Wallace]

 But the force would not be applied by police at the request of a king,
president or wealthy person. The difference is in who makes the rules and,
as a general principle, that the rules will the minimum required.

> --
Stathis Papaioannou   *And how is this different from what we have now?
People elected by the voters are in charge.  bill w*

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 6:18 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 08:31, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:19 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2021 at 07:57, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 2:33 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Under anarchism the people run the services themselves rather than
>>>>> have them imposed from above.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How is that even possible?  Unless literally everyone is involved in
>>>> all the services, which is impossible even for a few dozen people, the
>>>> services will by definition be "imposed" on anyone not running them, if
>>>> they are to work at all.
>>>>
>>>> Firefighting: if your house is next to mine and on fire, then my house
>>>> is at danger of catching fire.  If I'm a firefighter and you're not, then I
>>>> "impose" my service on you to save my house.  (Or I don't, and let your
>>>> house burn to the ground, thus rendering the firefighting service
>>>> ineffective.)
>>>>
>>>> Roads: if I build a road from my house to town, it goes by your house,
>>>> and you are not otherwise involved, I have "imposed" my road upon you.
>>>>
>>>> Health: pandemics don't care if you've opted in or not.  If you're
>>>> infected and you're my neighbor, you need to be treated before I get sick -
>>>> and vice versa.
>>>>
>>>> Police: if you have opted not to subscribe to the protection of the
>>>> law, people are free to impose force upon you, and will do so (if they
>>>> think the police really won't protect you) regardless of your alleged
>>>> rights.  It doesn't matter how many guns you have.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The idea is that collectives run things rather than those specially
>>> endowed with capital or power. Those who don’t want to participate or
>>> follow the rules are excluded from society. The point is that anarchism
>>> does not mean disorder, it means an elimination of hierarchical power
>>> structures. But maybe it doesn’t  work and hierarchies run things better.
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't work at all.  All four of those examples are cases where you
>> can not have both functioning institutions/infrastructure and the presence
>> of anyone who is excluded from society.  In each case, you would have to
>> physically remove the excluded person (and thus apply force without their
>> consent) or kill them (and thus apply force without their consent) in order
>> for those who opted into the institution/infrastructure to be able to use
>> them.  In other words, the mere presence of one who has opted out is
>> essentially an application of force against those who opted in.
>>
>
> Yes, you would have to apply force without consent, because a society
> couldn’t work otherwise. You couldn’t have basic things such as cars and
> roads if some people decided that they don’t have to stop at a red light.
> But the force would not be applied by police at the request of a king,
> president or wealthy person. The difference is in who makes the rules and,
> as a general principle, that the rules will the minimum required.
>
>> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
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> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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>
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