[ExI] libertarian city - from Quora

[William Flynn Wallace]

Adrian, this is a most excellent post.  Blacks that I know and have known
often, maybe mostly carry a gun, a razor, a box cutter, or some other
weapon.  What if all they had were their fists?  A lot of murders would not
occur.   But the motive is mostly fear, not aggression, so getting them to
stop carrying is a no-go.  Banning, confiscation, etc. will never work even
if you could do it.  Now I see where you can build a gun from a kit (Spike
may tell us more here)  bill w

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 7:06 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:34 PM Anton Sherwood via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> In a world that has had time to learn how to make statelessness work, I
>> would not expect any cluster of buildings to exist without having
>> negotiated easements and the like.  Adapting a preexisting city to new
>> statelessness will have inevitable challenges!  Somebody must have
>> written on possible solutions ..
>>
>
> I'm not sure there are practical solutions, for two reasons:
>
> 1) There are substantial benefits to clustering buildings - see
> "urbanization".  These known, proven, and thoroughly documented solutions
> are put up against the hypothetical benefits of declustering buildings -
> and even they were true, the latter pale in comparison.
>
> 2) Declustering involves moving the people in the removed buildings.  Said
> people believe their current buildings are their homes - so even if you are
> demonstrably building new homes for them, you are removing most people from
> their current homes, which most people strongly object to on principle.
> (Also: who decides which buildings - and thus, which people - get to stay?)
>
>
>> On 2021-8-11 14:55, Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat wrote:
>> > Police: if you have opted not to subscribe to the protection of the
>> law,
>> > people are free to impose force upon you, and will do so (if they think
>> > the police really won't protect you) regardless of your alleged
>> rights.
>> > It doesn't matter how many guns you have.
>>
>> Your other three examples have obvious externality problems, but where's
>> the externality in this one?
>>
>
> This one is not so much externality, but rather just pointing out that the
> choices are to submit to "force" (of the police) or to submit to "force"
> (of ill-doers), and that there is no choice where one does not face the
> potential of having to submit to external force.  Police-style force is, on
> average, less intense (despite the extremes) and easier to deflect (police
> are far more often willing to stand down and talk than ill-doers who have
> already committed to using force).
>
> Many people falsely believe that having a bunch of guns around will stave
> off ill-doers.  History has shown, time and again, that this is not the
> case.  The fantasized-about situations fail to account for practical
> reality - most famously:
> * malfunctioning friend-or-foe detection, resulting in shooting a friend
> or family member,
> * insufficient storage security, such that an innocent incompetent (such
> as an untrained kid) obtains and does harm with one of the firearms,
> * insufficient storage security, such that a competent malicious person
> who knows the firearms are there obtains and does harm with one of the
> firearms, or
> * the mere presence of a firearm (holstered or brandished) resulted in
> unnecessary escalation resulting in harm (especially lethal).
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