[ExI] Tesla autopilot

[Brent Allsop]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:18 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 12:34, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Is self-conscious, different than self-aware?  I would say not.
>> A tesla is already self aware or aware of itself (including it's color -
>> though only abstractly) as it must know where itself is, and where it needs
>> to go, while keeping itself from hitting other things....
>>
> I agree, I think that consciousness emerges from intelligent behaviour,
> but I’m surprised that you would say this.
>

All I'm agreeing with is that the Tesla can "function" identically to any
self awareness or self conscious functionality.  But the word "red"  (all a
the tesla knows about it's color) needs a dictionary to know what it means,
while the quality of our redness knowledge is the definition of red, no
dictionary required.  One is like something (conscious) the other is
purposely abstracted away from any physical qualities, any of which could
be representing such, but only if you have a the necessary to achieve such
substrate independence, dictionary.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:24 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 13:01, spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> BillK, it's a critical question: does the car have a steering wheel or
>> does
>> it not?  In the USA, it is aaaaalll about liability.  If the car has a
>> steering wheel and the autopilot screws up, the driver is liable.  If no
>> steering wheel, the company is at fault.
>>
>
> At some point it won't be the company that is at fault, but the car itself.
>

This I do agree with, for both abstract and phenomenally conscious systems,
both with functionally equally responsibility.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 8:15 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>  *>…*> *On Behalf Of *Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat
>
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 13:36, spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Ja, but irrelevant.  Teams of hungry lawyers will not sue a car.  They
> will go after the company which built it.
>
> >…If cars become as intelligent and as conscious as humans there would be
> no reason for them not to have the same rights and responsibilities as
> humans, although no doubt there will be a movement to keep them enslaved…
> Stathis
>
>
>
> Ja.  We already have a situation in which lawsuits focus on whoever has
> the most money.  In many cases, the prole which caused the damage has no
> money, so that person is clearly innocent.  Whoever hired her might have
> something worth suing away, so that person might have some fault.  On up it
> goes until the lawyers sense a potential payday.
>
>
>
> We can solve the control problems.  We are nowhere near solving the legal
> problems.
>

We're getting there (Canonizer's goal)

I so hate it how my "partially" closed loop insulin pump shuts down, and
refuses to make any decisions, if there is even an extremely remote
possibility their "decision" for programming could be culpable in ANY way.
Always selfishly pushing all that responsibility onto the many times far
less capable humans to make all those mistakes.

I sure hope that some day, when some poor bloke dies, in hypoglycemic
unconsciousness, due to this behavior, the company finally has to pay up
for their selfish unwillingness to take responsibility, when they easily
could have avoided such a death by taking responsibility, so the pendulum
can finally  swinging back towards true justice.

I believe the bottom line is, we can and should all help as much as
possible, and should all take responsibility, whenever possible.  That's
the difference between top down and bottom up - who is responsible?  To no
longer be damned, we simply need to stop sitting around waiting for some
God, at the top of some hierarchy, to save us.  Just do it.

Brent
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