[ExI] People often think their chatbot is alive

[Brent Allsop]

Thanks, Jason, for clarifying how you think on p-zombies and "conscious
computer brain simulations."  THIS is what I'm very interested in knowing.
I want to know and track what everyone, especially transhumanists think
about all this stuff.  I think knowing and tracking what people currently
think about this kind of stuff is critically important to society, and it's
ability to progress and make correct value decisions.  I also think that
which you measure, improves.

People are asking: "Who decides" who is conscious and all that.  But it is
each individual who decides, by living their life and making their choices
based on these types of beliefs.  The question isn't "who decides"  the
question is more "what does everyone decide?"  That's why we're building
and tracking consensus about what everyone thinks, in the Theories of
Consciousness
<https://canonizer.com/topic/88-Theories-of-Consciousness/1-Agreement>
topic.

And thanks Ben, for at least trying to understand and model what others
think on this issue, and seeking clarification, when mistaken.

So, Ben, if I may ask for some clarifica on exactly what you currently
think about p-zombies and "conscious computer brain simulations."  And I'd
like to know what everyone thinks about p-zombies and "conscious computer
brain simulations."

First off, would you agree that consciousness is composed of elemental
intrinsic qualities (I don't like the label 'qualia', though it is a label
for the same thing) like redness, greenness, warmth, and so on.

[image: 3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png]
In other words.  The systems on the left represent red knowledge with
something that has your redness quality, while the system on the right
represents the same knowledge with an abstract word like 'red'.  Would you
consider the one on the right to be "conscious"?  or would you consider the
one on the right to be something like a 'p-zombie'?

Note: by 'something like a p-zombie' I don't mean something that is atom
for atom, the same as the one on the left,  (as I think p-zombies are
traditionally defined), which is absurd.  I mean something that is very
physically different though equally functional (they all can tell you the
strawberry is red) but they do it in a very physically different and non
conscious ways.  The system on the right requires a dictionary to know what
the word "redness" means, the two on the left don't require a dictionary,
as their knowledge has that intrinsic redness quality.  And THAT quality is
their definition of the word redness.











On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 8:59 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
>
> I did, my apologies.
>
> Jason
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2022 at 3:14 PM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On 15/07/2022 20:02, Jason Resch wrote:
>> > I find it strange that you reject p-zombies but also reject the idea
>> > of conscious computer brain simulations.
>>
>> I'd find it strange as well (to say the least) if I did. I don't know
>> where you got that idea from, but I absolutely do not reject the idea of
>> conscious computer brain simulations. On the contrary, I think it's our
>> only real hope for long-term survival.
>>
>> I suspect you've got me confused with someone else.
>>
>> Ben
>> _______________________________________________
>> extropy-chat mailing list
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20220716/f183db69/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png
Type: image/png
Size: 26214 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20220716/f183db69/attachment.png>