[ExI] us

[William Flynn Wallace]

Especially for young people (first three or four decades), Green/extreme
environmentalism/catastrophism has replaced standard religions but meets
most of the same "needs". Max

We are often dissing the average person because we think that they are
likely authoritarians.  And why?  We think it's because they want to be
told how to do everything in life and how to live and what to believe.
Sheep following a leader.

What percentage of the population is that?  I wish I knew.  Think how many
teens and even younger kids go through a period, perhaps lifelong, of
disrespecting authority, sometimes following revelations that their parents
and others are hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

I must not have gotten the right genes:  the idea of bowing my head and
kneeling and asking for enlightenment and forgiveness is anathema to me.  I
very highly respect many people, modern and historical, but kowtowing?  Not
me, not ever.  I wonder how many in this group have a worship need?

Isn't 'authoritarian libertarian' an oxymoron?

bill w



On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 1:13 PM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> I met someone at university who told me that he wasn’t having children
> because of climate change. That is the moment I realized these people are
> radicals. This person is also a communist. I think many of the revolutions
> are just modern day holy crusades. People seem to feel the need to believe
> in something to worship and something to fight, lest we regress into
> boredom.
>
> On Nov 10, 2022, at 12:52 PM, Max More via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Perhaps one reason that church attendance is down is that the Green
> religion has gained so many followers and they don't have churches (at
> least in the usual sense).  The Green religion has its own original sin
> (humankind's separation from nature due to intelligence and technology),
> its own god or goddess (Gaia/the Earth/Nature), its own indulgences (carbon
> offsets), its sacrifices (give up your inexpensive cars in favor of
> expensive electric vehicles -- and pretend that the latter are powered by
> "green energy"), its own prophets (Al Gore, Bill McKibben, Michael Mann,
> and many others), and it follows authoritarian, faith-based modes of
> thinking -- believe The Science (TM), combined with apocalyptic
> pronouncements and predictions that are adjusted every time they fail.
>
> Especially for young people (first three or four decades), Green/extreme
> environmentalism/catastrophism has replaced standard religions but meets
> most of the same "needs".
>
> --Max
> ------------------------------
> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> on behalf
> of William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2022 10:29 AM
> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> *Cc:* William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] us
>
> Church attendance is down, I hear.  Look at the doctrines - Man is doomed
> via the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden.  All of us have to be saved from
> what we are, which is a bundle of unforgiven sin.  And the only way to do
> that is to join the 'true' church, whatever that might be locally.
>
> Those on the edge reject Original Sin, I think, in favor of Mother Nature,
> panpsychism, and more.  Future historians will take our age as a most
> interesting mess re religion, formal or informal.  bill w
>
> These are far more positive approaches to gods than all the major
> religions hold.
>
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2022 at 11:16 AM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> The professor I did research under at university is a Muslim. He once told
> me that he was raising one of his sons agnostic. I was really surprised at
> the time as that seemed to go completely against doctrine. I think people
> leaning on the edge tend to view religion itself as mostly a man-made
> construct made up of largely arbitrary rules while at the same time
> recognizing the fundamental existence of God. The trend seems to be that
> religion is becoming more individualistic and open to interpretation. In a
> personalized religion divorced from rigid doctrine it shouldn’t matter much
> what other people believe.
>
> On Nov 10, 2022, at 10:52 AM, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> Those near the border of skepticism and belief have a hard time when it
> comes to their children.  Let them experience religion first hand in a
> church?  Keep them away?  Let them know your doubt?  And so on.  Tough
> decisions for the agnostic (though not for the hard bitten atheist).  bill w
>
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 5:42 PM Tara Maya via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I imagine it's a Red Queen's arms race between the persuaders and the
> skeptics--made more difficult that we each play both roles at different
> times in our lives.
>
> Tara Maya
>
> On Nov 8, 2022, at 8:07 AM, BillK via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>
> Heh!  :)   Western societies live in an environment of hidden
> persuaders. Billions spent on advertising persuasion, government
> propaganda, religious cults indoctrinating members, social media
> influencers, etc. It is so prevalent that we don't even notice it.
> Like a fish asking, "What is this water that you talk about?".
> The Chinese have large camps to indoctrinate Uyghurs.
> None of this would be done if persuasion didn't work.
> Unfortunately it works far too well.
>
>
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