[ExI] Why stop at glutamate?

Giovanni Santostasi gsantostasi at gmail.com
Thu Apr 13 19:41:52 UTC 2023

*a single simple stand alone elemental quality of conscious experience like
redness*But that is what we are trying to tell you Brent, there is no such
a thing.

There is not, there is not, not cold not hot.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:38 PM Giovanni Santostasi <gsantostasi at gmail.com>

> In Physics gravity is considered a negative form of energy (potential) and
> kinetic energy is positive. These 2 seem to cancel perfectly out.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe#:~:text=The%20zero%2Denergy%20universe%20hypothesis,in%20the%20form%20of%20gravity
> .
> Energy and information are strongly related, so yes, one can consider the
> idea of negative information. Jason gave some hints about this but also the
> idea of anti-particle can be considered a type of anti-information. There
> is a way to think about anti-particle where they are holes in a field, so
> something absent in a continuum instead of something present with opposite
> properties to matter.
> But there are a lot of clues that the universe comes from nothing. To me
> this is a solution to all the theological problems. There is no god,
> because god was not necessary to create the universe. God is complex, the
> universe was simple at the beginning so simple to be literally nothing.
> Besides the total energy of the universe is zero there are other clues
> that the Universe came from nothing. Consider Noether's theorem. It
> basically states that the symmetry we find in nature, like the fact the
> world doesn't change if we go left to right, or if we reverse time like a
> in a movie (the laws stay the same) give rise to all the conservation laws
> of physics like conservation of momentum, angular momentum, energy and so
> on.
> All physics can be rewritten as conservation laws.
> There is incredible symmetry in the universe. It is not just in the
> macroscopic world but at the QM level. Other esoteric laws like
> conservation of charge, conservation of Lepton charge and so on are also
> explained as symmetries. In fact symmetry is used as a tool to unify
> the different forces of nature and show there is basically one force. We
> have succeeded to unify basically 3 of them (EM, weak and strong) and we
> are still struggling to unify gravity.
> Why so much symmetry?
> Think about it, what is the most symmetric entity possible?
> Nothing.
> And this is why there is zero energy in the universe, the universe is flat
> overall, we have perfect conservation laws, and mind-blowing symmetries all
> the way down.
> A good book to contemplate on these ideas is:
> https://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/1451624468
> It is a well-known fact among physicists and notwithstanding attempts like
> the above to popularize the idea so few non physicists grasp it. Here we
> are discussing referents when the entire universe came from nothing. If you
> can do it with the entire freaking universe you can do it with anything
> else.
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 5:52 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 5:29 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>> On 13/04/2023 04:49, Giovanni Santostasi wrote:
>>> > I want to make a correction to Ben's statement that is Turtles all the
>>> > way down. The Turtles go deep but not all the way down. It stops in a
>>> > place similar to the way we derive set theory from the null set.
>>> Hm, that's interesting. I was thinking about information (in the brain
>>> specifically, and other similar machines), and that the informational
>>> turtles go round in big complex loops, where every piece of information
>>> is relative to other pieces of information, so in that sense there'd be
>>> no end.
>>> In the wider world, though, I'm sure you're right. I tried to read about
>>> information theory, conservation of information, etc., but it just
>>> bamboozles me. The idea of the total energy (and presumably,
>>> information) in the universe being zero does make sense, though (erm,
>>> provided there can be such a thing as 'anti-information'?).
>> Perhaps that's entropy (uncertainty)? A coin flip, for example, has
>> entropy of 1 bit.
>> The Heisenberg uncertainty principle shows us the more information we
>> learn about some properties of a system, the more we must unlearn (make
>> uncertain) other aspects of that system.
>> Information is sometimes described by physicists as negative entropy. QM
>> shows that learning information (acquiring negative entropy) requires an
>> equal creation of more uncertainty (entropy). So in a way the conversation
>> of information might be the deeper principle behind the second law of
>> thermodynamics and the conservation of energy.
>> Jason
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