[ExI] Symbol Grounding

[Jason Resch]

On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 12:11 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Hi Jason,
> Why do you think a ChatBot can emagine [image: red_border.png], when a
> congenitally blind person can't?
>

During training the AI's brain is built from scratch to interpret its
sensory landscape (which takes the form of patterns within its
environment). Some of those patterns relate to the descriptions,
properties, and relations among colors as described by normally sighted
people. Given that we know the AI can imagine shapes and scenes (an element
of vision) how can you be so sure its brain did not develop other
imaginative/sensory capacities related to vision, which might include color?


> How is it that a bunch of abstract words, like 'red', floating around
> inside a chatbot's brain can end up with  [image: red_border.png] (unless
> magic happens here) .
>

How is it that a bunch of atomic ions, like 'calcium', floating around
inside a primate's brain can end up with ��?


>
> Go ahead.  Communicate this same information transfer this email achieves,
> using only text.
>

Communication depends on the capacities of a recipient's mind/brain. If you
are a person with a vivid imagination or synesthesia, it is quite easy for
me to communicate the experience of �� to you.

Jason


>
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 10:58 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 12:44 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 4:18 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just some food for thought. I don't argue that it does or doesn't have
>>>> this capacity, only that it isn't definitive to me either way.
>>>>
>>>
>>> How is the difference between [image: red_border.png] and "*RED*" not
>>> absolutely definitive?
>>>
>>
>> I can tell a person to "imagine a bright red firetruck." And despite no
>> visual stimulus they could see �� in their mind.
>>
>> If a person can do it, then perhaps an AI can as well. We know it can
>> imagine and draw objects from textual descriptions as a Giovanni showed.
>> It's not definitive (in my opinion) that it cannot imagine colors as well.
>> Early models could imagine shapes and three dimensional scenes despite
>> never being trained on images, so it's not absurd to think it has other
>> imaginative capabilities.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
>> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>>
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