[ExI] all we are is just llms

Brent Allsop brent.allsop at gmail.com
Mon Apr 24 17:32:04 UTC 2023

On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 10:43 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On 24/04/2023 05:16, Gordon Swobe wrote:
> > These are impressive feats in software engineering, interesting and
> > amazing to be sure, but it's just code.
> ... As opposed to what?? What on earth could a system - any system - use
> except 'just code'?

We've answered this a gazillion times.  Yet you show no sign of
understanding the differences.  Let me try it, yet again.
One uses an abstract code for red, which isn't red, like this one:  "*RED*"
Since it isn't red, you need a dictionary to know what it is a code for.
The other one uses your knowledge of  [image: red_border.png], which is
redness, not a code for redness.  The quality of your knowledge of   [image:
red_border.png]  is your definition of "*RED*".
While it is true that your knowledge of  [image: red_border.png], is a
false colored 'code' for a ripe strawberry (i.e. it isn't anything like any
properties of the strawberry, other than it reflects 700 nm light), that
isn't what we are talking about here

All data processing systems use 'just code', including our brains (which
> use a type of morse code, which you already know, unless you haven't
> been listening, or just disagree with me on this).
> Er, do you? You haven't even mentioned this, as far as I can remember,
> in any of your posts. But it's an important - essential, even - point.
> The brain uses these spike trains - a kind of morse code - as it's
> internal language. That's its 'code'.
> Perhaps we'd better establish if you disagree with this, because you're
> saying some very strange things now. I know you want to concentrate on
> higher-level things, especially human language, but if we can't agree on
> what lies under those levels, we're not really communicating at all.
> Do you agree that the brain uses spike-trains - a form of binary code -
> as its internal language? Or do you have an alternative hypothesis?

Spike trains can be codes for red, the same as all this text.  But at some
point, you need to have a transducing dictionary to interpret those spike
trains, which are only code for red, into actual subjective knowledge that
has the subjective redness quality of your knowledge of   [image:
red_border.png].   And if you are claiming it is a particular set of spike
train, which has that quality, please give us an example of such a spike
train, for which we could test to see if that particular spike train
results in a redness experience (without needing magic or is just
completely laughable  as any spike train I can imagine seems laughable, but
you never know).  There are many similarly laughable theories falsifiably
predicting the nature of a redness experience.  I'm just not placing any
bets on them.
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