[ExI] What is "Elemental Redness"?

[Gadersd]

> Of all the ways you guys think about consciousness (other than just simplistic functionalism), which way of thinking about things do you think has the most consensus?

Most of us here (I presume) don’t care much about how much consensus a theory has, but rather how logical it is. The viewpoint that consciousness/qualia is a process rather than a physical object seems to be the most logical theory we have so far.

> On May 1, 2023, at 5:48 PM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the data point.  If that is the case, I wish I could know, concisely and quantitatively, what everyone does think, and why, and I wish we could track this as we continue to talk, so we could know if any progress is being made.  One way or another.  I know I've learned a lot, and feel like I've progressed, from these conversations.  And you can see that progress in the history of the camps as they have developed over the last 10 years.
> 
> Of all the ways you guys think about consciousness (other than just simplistic functionalism), which way of thinking about things do you think has the most consensus?
> 
> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 1:15 PM Gadersd via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>>  I'm glad at least one person can understand what I've been trying to figure out how to say,since back in the 90s.
>> Coming up with the model of how qualia might work was the easy part.  Learning how to communicate it to everyone is a gazillion times harder.
> 
> I think you have “communicating” and “convincing” confused. I am confident that most members on the list understand what your theory is. The problem is that we just don’t find it convincing.
> 
>> On May 1, 2023, at 11:20 AM, Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Yay, Will's got it!!
>> Thanks Will.  I'm glad at least one person can understand what I've been trying to figure out how to say,since back in the 90s.
>> Coming up with the model of how qualia might work was the easy part.  Learning how to communicate it to everyone is a gazillion times harder.
>> 
>> So does that mean you would agree with a definition of consciousness to be something like "computationally bound elemental qualities?"
>> 
>> Could you concisely describe your model of consciousness, or the way you think about it?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 6:39 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> It means, I think, "the conformation of physical reality that produces the red quale, on the layer of physical reality that is responsible for qualia"
>> 
>> On Mon, May 1, 2023, 5:09 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org <mailto:extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>> wrote:
>> I have a question:
>> 
>> Can someone please explain, in simple terms, what the phrase "Elemental 
>> Redness" actually means?
>> 
>> Preferably not Brent (sorry, Brent, but it's just that I never 
>> understand what you're saying, so an explanation from you would be 
>> useless to me. Unless, of course, you can drop the jargon for once and 
>> just use plain old english, but I think that's unlikely).
>> 
>> The reason I ask is that it seems to mean different things to different 
>> people, and it doesn't mean anything to me.
>> 
>> Ben
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