[ExI] The meaning of life? Let's solve this together, once and for all! ; )

[Jason Resch]

On Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:19 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Good evening everyone,
>
> Let's solve this together, once and for all! ;)
>

I like that spirit!


> When it comes to the meaning of life,


I find it helps to start with a definition to make sure everyone is on the
same page. For the purposes of what I write below, I am using "meaning" in
the sense of reason, purpose, and value. So the question of the meaning of
life is to ask, what purpose, of any, is there in living? What value, if
any, is there in living? For what reason, if any, are we here?


I believe that it cannot be found as an
> object in the world,


I take this to mean it's not a physical object. But could it be a
realizable state in this world, i.e., a state of mind or a state of
consciousness?


and I do not believe that it is something that can be told
> which would instantly create meaning.


Do you think it is describable at all?


I think that meaning is deeply personal
> and it is something which has to be experienced and lived in order to
> express
> and feel it.
>

I would say all intrinsicly meaningful (valuable) things, or in other
words, anything that is meaningful/valuable on its own, are states of
awareness / consciousness. Those things that are "instrumentally
meaningful" are valuable only in so far as their potential to affect states
of consciousness.

"It there appeared that we could not, on reflection, maintain anything to
be intrinsically and ultimately good, except in so far as it entered into
relation to consciousness of some kind and rendered good and desirable: and
thus that the only ultimate Good, or End in itself, must be Goodness or
Excellence of Conscious Life."
-- Henry Sidgwick in “The Methods of Ethics” (1874)

"Finding [an answer to consciousness] matters:
indeed, one could argue that nothing else could
ever matter more – since anything at all that
matters, in life, only does so as a consequence of its impact on conscious
brains."
— Oliver Burkeman in “Why can’t the world’s greatest minds solve the
mystery of consciousness?” (2015)

"Without consciousness, the universe would still be just as immense and
awe-inspiring. But without a conscious mind to appreciate its majesty, is
there really any value in the existence of all that stuff? It is our
experiences that make life worth living: exhilarating pleasures, sweeping
emotions, subtle thoughts. Without consciousness none of these things is
possible."
— Phillip Goff in “Galileo’s Error: Foundationsfor a New Science of
Consciousness” (2019)

If we accept this premise, then the question is somewhat simplified. What
are the desirous states of consciousness that we seek?

And then secondary to that question, arise many other questions, such as:
How do we weigh the relative difference between ending suffering vs
creating happiness? How do we prioritize between variety, quality, and
quantity of desired experiences? Is it possible to weigh the value of
experiences between two different individuals?



> The meaning I am talking about is a deep seated, fundamental meaning that
> brings you peace as an individual.
>


To me, this is more a psychological and personal question, rather than a
philosophical one. As each person has a different psychology, the answer
for what brings an individual the most peace can be different for each
person, and therefore it is for each person to try to answer this question
for themselves. I doubt we will find any better on an answer than this, if
this is how we define meaning.


> But, I also believe there are different levels of meaning, and although it
> has
> been criticized, as an approximate framework to talk within, I kind of like
> Maslows pyramid of needs. We have a need for life, a drive to live, for
> safety,
> food, etc. On top of that we have our everyday meaning, we need to feel
> wanted
> and that we produce something. I believe for instance, that the human body
> was
> made for input and output. If you starve the input, or starve the output,
> you'll create an imbalance that will impact your psychological health.
>
> So looking at positive psychology, I think we have some pointers and tools
> to
> give us a good foundation for worldly meaning. Add to that, a pinch of
> stoicism
> and epicureanism, and you can, with a bit of skill, create a nice
> philosophical
> "mind castle" for yourself that does away with fear of death and other such
> things.
>

I think various societies, philosophies and religions, have given different
answers to this question.  But they all align generally in the seat
direction, that of doing good (either for oneself, for others, or for the
world.)


"As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night,
night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be
fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your
hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of
man."
-- “Epic of Gilgamesh” (2100 B.C.)


According to Hinduism, there are four aims in life:
- Kāma (desire): sensual pleasure, emotional fulfillment, aesthetic (arts,
dance, music, nature) appreciation, enjoyment, love, affection
- Artha (means of living): career, financial security, prosperity
- Dharma (duties): virtue, moral values, ethics, non-violence, order
- Moksha (liberation): freeing oneself from the cycle of reincarnation
through enlightenment, self-knowledge, and self-realization


"What is the highest good in all matters of action? To the name, there is
an almost complete agreement; for uneducated and educated alike call it
happiness, and make happiness identical with the good life and successful
living. They disagree, however, about the meaning of happiness."
--  Aristotle in “Nicomachean Ethics” NE I.4 (340 B.C.)



In his 1973 work Ethics, the philosopher William Frankena tried to list
everything that has intrinsic value. The following is his list:

- Life, consciousness, and activity
- Health and strength
- Pleasures and satisfactions of all or certain kinds
- Happiness, beatitude, contentment, etc.
- Truth
- Knowledge and true opinion of various kinds, understanding, wisdom
- Beauty, harmony, proportion in objects contemplated
- Aesthetic experience
- Morally good dispositions or virtues
- Mutual affection, love, friendship, cooperation
- Just distribution of goods and evils
- Harmony and proportion in one’s own life
- Power and experiences of achievement
- Self-expression
- Freedom
- Peace, security
- Adventure and novelty
- Good reputation, honor, esteem, etc.



> But for me, that is not Meaning with a capital m. All the previous levels
> in
> Maslows pyramid contribute to a good life, but at the top with have the
> mystical self-actualization, and I am somewhat attracted to the earth (or
> universe) shattering realizations of a union with the universe that the
> mystics
> talk about.
>

Or as variously described as:
Moksha
Nirvana
Enlightenment

Which I would say, is understanding who you really are.



> That might be a peak, and on the road to that peak, you can have deep
> seated
> ethical and moral feelings such as doctors when it comes to the sanctity of
> life, and saving lives, that give a deep meaning to your life. But just
> telling
> the would-be doctor that it is nice to save lives, is not enough. The
> meaning
> for the doctor is created when he is performing his function.
>
> When it does come to the lighter kind of philosophical meaning, I am very
> fond
> of epicureanism with the understanding that it talks about long-term
> sustainable pleasure.


Yes, this is how Epicurus framed it:

"When we say, then, that pleasure is the end and aim, we do not mean the
pleasures of the prodigal or the pleasures of sensuality, as we are
understood to do by some through ignorance, prejudice, or willful
misrepresentation. By pleasure we mean the absence of pain in the body and
of trouble in the soul."
-- Epicurus in “Letter to Menoeceus” (c. 300 B.C.)


But it could be argued, that peak mystical experiences
> are aligned with that philosophy, since a deep seated, fully realized
> meaning
> does bring you long-term sustainable pleasure so epicureanism can
> be deeper than it looks at first sight. Actually, I'm not fond of the
> word pleasure since I think brings with it bad connotations and
> associations.
> Perhaps contentment might be better? You're the english speaking pros, so
> I'm
> certain you'll be able to nail it down to a better word. =)
>

Yes happiness or contentment are good. Epicurus defined it negatively, in
terms of absence of pain and suffering, which I think is close to the same
thing as contentment.


> So with that said, what do you all think about the meaning of life?
>

I think that all meaning (purpose/value) in life reduces, ultimately, to
realizing states of consciousness. And as conscious life forms, we all
share a common goal: creating more, higher quality, and exploring the
variety of, conscious experiences.

The trajectory of life, everywhere and anywhere in the universe will, I
think, follow this trajectory. We are, as conscious beings, on a course to
fill the universe with consciousness for the purposes of realizing as many
states of consciousness as possible, to eliminate suffering and pain, and
promote the creation of positive experiences for all conscience beings.

It may make little difference whether it is us or our machine descendents
that are in control, for I think all conscious beings possess these goals,
by virtue of the fact that they are conscious, and will deduce logically
that all utility comes felt states of consciousness (just as humans have
been deducing for centuries).

Jason
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