[ExI] Would human uploads have emotions?

[Brent Allsop]

Keth let me ask a question, to determine if you are completely qualia blind
or not.

First, would you agree that redness is a quality of your subjective
knowledge of a strawberry, a quality of something in your brain, not a
quality of the strawberry.

Also, Would you agree that we need to first discover what is responsible
for your redness quality, and also what is responsible for your greenness
quality.  THEN once we know the true color qualities of things (instead of
just the seeming color qualities of things), we will then be able to
engineer artificial conscious systems, using whatever is made of those
redness and grenness qualities.  We will need to make such decisions as do
we want the redness and greenness qualities to be engineered the same as
Keith's subjective red and green knowledge, or do we want it to be
red/green inverted.  (or any of another gazillion different falses color
possibilities)

In other words, unless you are thinking about what color palette to use, to
represent subjective knowledge with, in any engineered system you are
thinking of, your thinking is qualia blind.

What is a redness quality?  Which of all our objective descriptions of
stuff in the brain (even if only functional) is a description of redness?
How can you design a system that uses your subjective redness without being
able to know and subjectively demonstrate that?

If you're not imagining which of these systems you plan on engineering, you
are qualia blind.  As all of them will be possible.

[image: strawberery_is_red.jpeg]










On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:55 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> "requires analog meat brains."
>
> I don't see any reason for this.
>
> Keith
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 10:05 AM spike jones via extropy-chat
> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf
> Of Brent Allsop via extropy-chat
> > Subject: Re: [ExI] Would human uploads have emotions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Spike,
> >
> > Your beliefs are hard to pin down.
> >
> > First you say: "I do not wish to believe that thought is substrate
> dependent, and I don’t."  (Yay! ;)
> >
> > I'm wondering exactly what you mean with that "I don't"
> >
> > then you seem to contradict your desires with:
> >
> > "I hope not but think [swimming in endorphins]  is likely."  (I can
> relate to this.)
> >
> >
> >
> > And it is fascinating that you express this as desire, rather than just
> stating factual beliefs, independent of any desires, like lots of people
> seem to try to do.
> >
> >
> >
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> > Ja.  Brent a better way to state my belief is in terms of probability or
> even betting.
> >
> >
> >
> > We know the game of political betting: vote your values, bet your
> beliefs.  If you do that, in the long run, you win.  You win by taking
> advantage of those who bet their values.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is my belief that thought is substrate independent.  I would pay 80
> cents for that bet.  But I would only give about 25 to 30 cents that
> emotion and the feelings associated with my mariachi band at Berkeley
> experience is substrate independent.  It might be independent, but I fear
> that somehow emotion is entirely dependent on substrate and requires analog
> meat brains.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t know how to express that on canonizer, and haven’t messed with
> it.  Don’t give up on me Brent, getting up to speed on canonizer is on my
> list.  It just isn’t at the top of my list and currently isn’t seriously
> challenging anything up there at the top.  But times change.
> >
> >
> >
> > Speaking of which… political betting is a kind of monetized Canonizer,
> ja?  I had never thought of it that way until you brought up the influence
> of desire vs belief.  Cool.
> >
> >
> >
> > spike
> >
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> > On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 10:34 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 8:54 AM BillK via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
> >
> > >…I have been musing on mariachi band experiences and I have doubts that
> > uploads will have experiences like humans… BillK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > BillK I reluctantly agree.  I do not wish to believe that thought is
> substrate dependent, and I don’t.  But I am compelled to think that human
> emotion, as humans experience it, might require carbon-based meat brains,
> swimming in hormones and endorphins.  I hope not, but think it is likely.
> >
> >
> >
> > spike
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> >
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> >
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