[ExI] not that rare earth (part 2 of at least 2)

[John Clark]

On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 10:38 AM <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:



> *>> …I can't think of any application in which the rare earths don't need
>> to be refined out into separate elements, if there is such an application
>> it must not be a very important one… John K Clark*
>
>
>
> *> If such applications exist, we wouldn’t know.  Those would be held as
> trade secrets. *
>

*If there were such an application we already know magnetic or optical
properties  can't be involved, because there is great variation in those
properties among the different rare earths. So it must be something in
their chemical properties because they are all almost identical in that
respect. But a trade secret that can be told in one short sentence such as
"unrefined rare earths can be economically useful in the X chemical
process" tend not to remain secret for very long. *

*> Recognizing all this, Musk found a way to phase out rare earth elements
> without losing significant performance in his magnets.*
>

*No Musk has not. It's true that back in 2008 the original Tesla had no
rare earth magnets, in fact it had no permanent magnets of any sort because
it used an old-fashioned AC induction motor. However the best efficiency
you're going to get with one of those is about 85%, but a motor that uses
rare earth permanent magnets has an efficiency of about 97%, and
an induction motor is also larger and MUCH heavier than a rare earth motor
of equal power. Tesla is not currently producing ANY cars that completely
avoid rare earth magnets, however their cheapest car uses an AC induction
motor for the front wheels but a rare earth permanent magnet motor for the
back wheels. But Tesla is never going to be competitive with any Chinese
car maker if they continue to go down that road.*

*In 2023 Tesla made a grand announcement they were going to find a way to
make a great electric motor that didn't use any rare earths, but it's
almost 2026 and we've heard nothing more about that, certainly nothing has
been put in production.  *


> *> **we can go up the group one period if that element is cheaper and
> more easily available. *
>

*I don't know what you mean by "go up the group one period" because the
rare earth elements are all in the same group, and the periodic table of
elements are arranged according to their chemical properties NOT their
magnetic properties which is what we are interested in. The defining
feature of the rare earth elements is that their outer valence electrons
are all the same, and valence electrons are the ones that are primarily
responsible for giving an element its chemical properties. But the various
rare earth element's inner shell of electrons are all quite different, and
that is what gives the specific element its magnetic properties.  *

*> **Elon wouldn’t risk the entire company on the continuing availability
> of anything on which China has a monopoly. *
>

*If he wants to make electric cars then he'd have no choice, unless Musk
could convince He Who Must Not Be Named to put a huge tariff on imported
Chinese cars and thus force Americans to buy his overpriced outdated
inefficient junk cars.   *

*> The US military wouldn’t base their technology on any material in which
> it didn’t hold a fifty year stockpile. *
>

*If the US military was omnipotent I'm sure that's exactly what they would
do.  *

*John K Clark*
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