[ExI] [Extropolis] Re: How the brain builds sentences, neuron by neuron

[John Clark]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 3:38 PM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com> wrote:

* >there must be something in the brain for which a fact like this will be
> true*


*Not if that "something" is a color qualia and it is a brute fact, you may
not like that but if it doesn't terminate then the only alternative is that
an iterated sequence of "what" questions goes on forever, and you'd
probably like that even less. Even pure mathematics can't start from
nothing, it needs axioms that seem reasonable but have no proof.  *

*John K Clark*



>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 1:14 PM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 11:47 AM Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> *> The system must detect physical qualities when it is on, and not when
>>> it is off.  Objectively observing all that will tell you when it is on and
>>> when it is off,*
>>
>>
>> *Yes.*
>>
>>
>>> *> but it will not tell you what it is like.*
>>
>>
>> *That is also true, but why is it true? The only answer I can think of is
>> that a color qualia must not be "like" anything except itself. An
>> explanation is supposed to make something that is complicated simpler, and
>> you just can't get any simpler than a brute fact. After all, what is the
>> alternative? If you discovered that a color qualia is "like" X then you'd
>> want to know what X was "like", and if X was "like" Y then....*
>>
>
>
> Yes, exactly.
> It is a brute objectively and subjecdtively observable fact that glutamate
> behaves the way it does, in a synapse, because of it's redness quality.
> (Note: glutamate behavior is just a temporary, easily falsifiable,
> standin.  But there must be something in the brain for which a fact like
> this will be true)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> *PS: why did you decide to take this off list? *
>>
>
> Oops, my mistake.  Thanks for pointing this out, and I'm putting back on
> the lists.
>
>
>
>>
>> * John K Clark*
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 5:24 AM John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2026 at 5:42 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *> AI does binding/computing with brute force discrete logic gates,
>>>>> which is obviously a far less efficient way than whatever we are doing with
>>>>> bound phenomenal qualities.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Unless you want to invoke magic, and I don't think you want to do
>>>> that, then whatever we are doing must be logical; and in fact for years you
>>>> seem to be demanding a logical explanation for the existence of qualia. And
>>>> a good explanation means making something that is very complex and hard to
>>>> understand less complex and easier to understand. And you can't get any
>>>> simpler than turning on to off, or off to on. *
>>>>
>>>> *John K Clark*
>>>>
>>> --
>
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