[Paleopsych] empathy [was] Positive emotions and perceptual accuracy

[K.E.]

hey Lynn

At 09:23 PM 2/17/2005, you wrote:
>No offense taken, Karen, you are a fascinating contributor to this 
>listserv. Always interesting stuff.

<shy grin>


>In a sense you are right. All creatures may have empathy.

yes it is in a "sense" - it is "to sense"

some brains are wired in a way that gives them a more intense
ability to sense - other energy - you'll have to just let it go - whatever we
could discuss about energy is more than i want to type
and in how may ways creatures are wired to sense energy . . ..

so

those animals knew (sensed) the tsunami was coming - they went to higher ground
how'd they know - how are they wired to sense tsunami energy?

indigenous people living close to the earth - who still have an oral tradition
passing their righteous wisdom down thru the ages
watch animals & they left for higher ground

basically it's only the "Educated People" with all the technology
and no oral tradition who have lost their senses - they died pfffffft

i know i know - how can i say such things - it's ok, i don't really have
to defend all that i've typed - it's just what i think

>But to feel empathy in another sentient creature requires something I 
>don't possess, psychic abilities. I actually believe they (psychic 
>abilities) exist, because after my interviews of near death experiencers, 
>I found some pretty anomolous data. Rupert Sheldrake lives! So I infer 
>empathy from actions. Technically, what the dog feels for my cat is 
>compassion. If the cat is outside and the weather turns bad, the dog will 
>pace and whine until I let her out. She goes out, collects the cat, and 
>herds her in. So I infer empathy/compassion. Never seen a cat do anything 
>like that. MY cat seems to specialize in bugging me when I am trying to 
>write an email. Total lack of empathy for me. I pet her anyway. I have 
>empathy for her. Dumb cat.

my smart cat guavaberry knew that i would protect her - she had her kittens 
in my bed next to me in the middle of the night. I was dreaming that she 
was having kittens (i saw her having the kittens in my dream) and i got so 
excited it woke me up to see this happening next to me.
fact: i never knew anything about her being pregnant, my friend to told me 
she was, joking i flippantly said the due date -  she had those kittens on 
that very day. I've got a lifetime of stories like that, creatures/ humans 
born or dyin'.

It's not the only time i've seen it in my mind before it happens - how do i 
see it? is this being psychic?  well okie dokie if you think so, but to me 
it's like green grass, a very ordinary thing.

>So what am I missing about feeling empathy in critters?

their pain

<snip>
So we have to conclude that NDE in our study was experienced during a 
transient functional loss of all functions of the cortex and of the 
brainstem. It is important to mention that there is a well documented 
report of a patient with constant registration of the EEG during cerebral 
surgery for an gigantic cerebral aneurysm at the base of the brain, 
operated with a body temperature between 10 and 15 degrees, she was put on 
the heart-lung machine, with VF, with all blood drained from her head, with 
a flat line EEG, with clicking devices in both ears, with eyes taped shut, 
and this patient experienced an NDE with an out-of-body experience, and all 
details she perceived and heard could later be verified. (8)

Out of Body - please, humans do it all the time,  it's a defense, it's 
natural it's ordinary
science "knows very little

& this is the best science can do at this point.
You know how hard it is to get this eensy weensy teeny weeny thing published!

"No One gets in to see the Wizard, Not no way, Not no how!" -- The Guard to 
Dorothy
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." -- The Wizard to Dorothy


best to ya,

karen

>Lynn
>motley Ph.D.
>
>
>K.E. wrote:
>
>>I don't want to offend, I do want to say that empathy is felt. If you 
>>don't see it then fine, I wouldn't expect that. If there are not 
>>scientific tests that allow you to see it, I wouldn't expect that either.
>>
>>Science - doesn't have the ability to test for everything - ALL animals 
>>is a pretty huge statement I agree, however we can't KNOW that they don't 
>>have it on some level.
>>
>>k
>>(aka motley crew of - highly- unclassified people)
>>
>>At 12:13 AM 2/17/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>>Well, many mammals seem to have empathy. I do not think that reptiles 
>>>have empathy nor fish. I have not seen empathy in cows, but some in 
>>>horses. My Lab retriever has empathy for our cat, and the cat hates the 
>>>dog. I have not seen empathy in cats. No offense intended, you cat 
>>>lovers. Your examples are mostly chimps, and certainly they have 
>>>empathy. The bird studies show intelligence but I don't see the empathy. 
>>>Our bird has no empathy for anyone except the lovely bird behind the 
>>>mirror. Empathy is likely a limbic / neocortex combination, bigger 
>>>cortex, more empathy???. I suspect that animals living in groups would 
>>>tend to develop empathy.
>>>Lynn
>>>
>>>K.E. wrote:
>>>
>>>>All animals have empathy
>>>>
>>>>Non Human Animals Have Intelligence,
>>>>Culture, Emotion, Compassion and Language
>>>>http://www.wildlifeprotection.net/Cruelty/cruelty4.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>karen
>>>>
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