[Paleopsych] Eshel and Pavel--time as a translator

Steve Hovland shovland at mindspring.com
Thu Nov 24 15:08:37 UTC 2005

If complexity increases over time then
conscious entities would require new,
larger scale abstractions in order to
understand and possibly manipulate
the whole.

Steve H.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org
[mailto:paleopsych-bounces at paleopsych.org]On Behalf Of HowlBloom at aol.com
  Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:19 PM
  To: kurakin1970 at yandex.ru
  Cc: paleopsych at paleopsych.org
  Subject: [Paleopsych] Eshel and Pavel--time as a translator

  Eshel--It's been much too long since we've communicated and I've missed

  Have I introduced you to Pavel Kurakin, from the Keldysh Institute of
Applied Mathematics of the Russian Academy of Science in Moscow?  Thanks to
Pavel I gave a presentation at the international conference Quantum
Informatics 2005 in Moscow a month ago.

  That presentation stressed the fact that  no quantum particle is an
island.  All particles in the real world are part of mobs.  So understanding
mob behavior is critical to physics.  My example of a mob in motion was
derived from your work on bacterial colonies and credited you heavily.

  The dialog below also owes a great deal to you--specifically to the
questions you tossed me on information way back when.

  And as I continue the discussion, which I'll do below, you'll become even
more a part of it.  Howard

  In a message dated 11/23/2005 9:18:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kurakin1970 at yandex.ru writes:
    hb: Time is a communication of past to future via the  interpretive
process we call
    the present.

    pavel kurakin: fantastic formulation. it could seem trivial but one
point: "communication"  means flow in both sides. Triviality turns out to be
extreme innovation. this is what i call "hidden time" and what you call "mob
emotions". I would add "plans".
  hb: Rich, rich thought-food, Pavel.

  My first intuition is that the communication called time is one-way  But
thinking through your inner time hypothesis and pondering the link to the
future that the word "plans" involves, you may be right.  The inner-time
hypothesis is about two-way communication in which the present signals to a
semblance of the future and moves according to the feedback it gets back.

  A plan, a sense of a future objective, plays a major role in Eshel
Ben-Jacob's interpretation of bacterial colonies as creative webs.  I also
suspect a goal plays a role in the rules by which the present translates the
past into future.

  Which brings us back to teleonomy.  Teleonomy is biologist Ernst Mayr's
way of smuggling a whiff of teleology back into legitimate science.  Do you
know about teleology and teleonomy?

  Here's a for more relevant question.  If the present is the process that
translates the past into the future, what rules does it use?  And do those
rules change as the complexity of the present and of the future grow?

  Howard Bloom
  Author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces
of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to
the 21st Century
  Recent Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York
University; Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute
  Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; founding board member:
Epic of Evolution Society; founding board member, The Darwin Project;
founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of Sciences,
American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Psychological
Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution Society,
International Society for Human Ethology; advisory board member: Institute
for Accelerating Change ; executive editor -- New Paradigm book series.
  For information on The International Paleopsychology Project, see:
  for two chapters from
  The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History,
see www.howardbloom.net/lucifer
  For information on Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big
Bang to the 21st Century, see www.howardbloom.net
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