[extropy-chat] "Dead Time" of the Brain.

[A B]

Hi Heartland,
   
  I agree that the evidence suggests that a human mind is an active process. I also acknowledge, that the atoms/ions/molecules which perpetuate the mind-process will each trace out a different trajectory in space/time, under typical circumstances.
   
  However, the fact that a moving atom "possesses" a space/time trajectory, does not mean that the atom is *defined* by a space/time trajectory. The space/time trajectory is a single component of an *extremely* large definition of any given atom. The space/time trajectory is an *effect* not a cause, of an atom that happens to be in motion. In other words, there is no space/time trajectory, without an atom to trace it in the first place (except for something like a photon, perhaps, but the brain isn't made of photons). The mind-process (or the mind-activity) cannot exist without atoms to do the dirty work.
   
  The activity that perpetuates a human mind is the activity (motion) of atoms (molecules, etc). 
   
  So how can a "mind object" be any different than a physical brain, made of atoms?
   
  And how can a "mind trajectory" be any different than a trajectory of a physical brain (the trajectory can refer only to atoms/molecules/ions)?
   
  Best Wishes,
   
  Jeffrey Herrlich    

Heartland <velvet977 at hotmail.com> wrote:
  
> Heartland wrote:
> "That illusion will happen as part of a
> verifiably different *instance* of mind process than the original instance of 
> that
> same *type* of process. As people, we are instances, not types. That's the 
> biggest
> misconception people bring to this kind of debate, namely, that people are
> types."

Jeffrey Herrlich:
"I don't think that Space/Time trajectory is sufficient to distinguish any specific 
instance of mind-process from any other. The key to my objection here lies with the 
necessary mind-*process*. As I pointed out in an old post, a vitrified brain 
retains a Space/Time trajectory that is every bit as real and valid as a trajectory 
followed by a living brain (A living brain and a vitrified brain are both "4-D"). 
While a brain is vitrified it is *not* conducting a mind-*process* at all. So, upon 
very close examination, the "original" mind-process (original instance) *cannot* at 
all be distinguished by Space/Time trajectory, from the "copied" mind-process 
(copied instance) - it is the *same* brain. I realize this paragraph may be 
difficult to follow, but I couldn't find a way to make it more straightforward."

The mistake in your reasoning is that you equated mind object with the brain object 
and mind trajectory with brain trajectory. These objects and their trajectories 
would be completely different even though similar by virtue of the same volume of 
time and space they would occupy (but different locations within that volume). When 
mind process stops, a trajectory of that mind stops while trajectory of the brain 
might still be continuous for some time while trajectories of individual atoms 
might be continuous forever. A total of 3 different trajectories parallel to time 
axis.

The end of trajectory of original instance of mind process would not be the start 
of a trajectory of future instance of mind process. The line would be not be 
continuous along time axis. (Brain trajectory doesn't "connect" two mind 
trajectories since the brain trajectory is altogether different one). There would 
be 2 unconnected trajectories representing 2 different instances of a mind-type 
object.

These 4-D trajectories would be sufficient in making all objects, including 
multiple instances of the same type of object, verifiably distinguishable.

S.

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