[ExI] to install

samantha sjatkins at mac.com
Thu Jun 3 10:57:43 UTC 2010

Anna Taylor wrote:
> Thank you Jef.  Yes I watched it when you posted it on facebook.  Again, my... was exactly what you would call Catholic or others would call synoguoges or place of worship.  My comment was not in referal to a suggestive church or religion it was about "churches", which I believe should be called: A place to help others at no cost.  
How is that?  There are huge costs.  They instill mystical claptrap as 
the basis for everything they teach.  It becomes a sort of package deal 
in the minds of many.  The claptrap is the reason why the morality is so 
and the reason why every thing good in their lives is good is because 
they are good.  Vicious circle.  This is not by accident.  Religions are 
designed to install themselves in this way.  Instead of learning ethics 
on the basis of reason and reality a version of ethics is learned based 
on mysticism and acceptance on faith.  This is incredibly costly.  It 
splits the mind that takes it seriously.   Most minds don't take it that 
seriously out of self-defense.  As a result ethics becomes this 
untrustworthy realm one gives lip service to but really does not have 
integrated at all.  Morality is split from reality.  The mind 
compartmentalizes after all and simply will no longer look at some 
things deeply.    Very costly.

On top of this churches generally encourage heavy tithing and other 
volunteering of "time and talents".  More costs. 

> Probably the wrong choice of words.  How about "A place to be nice?".  
I actually agree with part of that.  A place where you just let down the 
card and open your heart right on up.  Seems to me we can do that and 
make places to do with one another without all the rest though.

> When I replied it was because someone mentioned, "well parents should just teach their children".  My apology if that wasn't clear.  Not all adults have been well taught, where can they go to get spiritual help?
What exactly is this "spiritual" help?  You mean just life help and 
learning to be as well as you can be and enjoy life and be a boon to 
self and others?  You don't need religion for that.  There is humanism, 
self-help groups, therapy, trusted friends, support systems - all 
without church or religion.

>  I still think churches should be a place of spiritual growth but i'm aware that it's not that easy.  Just as it isn't just that easy to ban churches and expect spiritual growth to simply appear without any form of guidance.

Same question.  What is "spiritual growth" as opposed to just plain 
growth as a human being (and more)?   I am very curious about that.  I 
know from experience that it can feel different, very different.  But I 
am not at all sure why or that the why is something to be trusted.

- samantha

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