[ExI] and speaking of exponential singularities...

Kelly Anderson kellycoinguy at gmail.com
Tue Jul 19 05:54:03 UTC 2011


On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Tom Nowell <nebathenemi at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I must start this by saying to the mormons on this list I don't dislike you personally,

To be clear, I am a former Mormon, and a staunch atheist. So I would
not want to speak for any active Mormon members.

> it's
> just I have been goaded into thinking of you like starving children in Africa or prisoners
> of conscience - you may be individually admirable but your marketing people have annoyed me.

Highly understandable. 19-20 year-olds don't have an excess of sense
or sensibility, and that's how old most of the missionaries are.

> Spike is frequently very careful about alluding to Muslims, not wanting to say anything offensive.

That's pretty funny, really. I think everyone should make fun of
everyone, relentlessly, until we stop taking each other so seriously.

> In my day to day existence in the UK, I find there's little to worry about from Islam - I've worked
> alongside many hard-working muslims, no muslim neighbour has hassled me, I don't have to
> worry about drunk muslims causing trouble in the town centre. Furthermore, in their own happy
> way, they don't proselytise to me - they mostly try to target those of south asian or african
> descent. They never try to make a play for my white anglo-saxon protestant soul.

Funny that... for proselytizing is an integral part of the Muslim
religion. If they aren't going after you on occasion, then they
honestly aren't being very good Muslims from what I understand.

> But there's an insidious group sending out young boys to try and steal my soul.
> They send out "elders" who look too young to shave out on to the streets in pairs.
> They seem to preferentially target white anglo-saxon types, and if you mention
> you're a christian they excitedly try to get you to read a book of a "bible" that
> doesn't look like any bible you've ever read.

I can promise you that the Mormon missionaries don't target any
particular group. If there are any demographics that enter into
things, I would say that poor people listen to what the missionaries
have to say a little more carefully than more affluent people. The
Book of Mormon isn't purported to be the Bible. Rather, a similar sort
of book involving the people living in the Americas from ~600 BC to
~420 AD. It is a very interesting book, and the primary reason that
people get interested in Mormonism. It really is astonishing (remember
I'm the atheist) that Joseph Smith came up with this book... perhaps
it was given to him by aliens... :-)  He was an ignorant farm boy...

> (Is it a sign you're approaching middle age when elders look incredibly young?)

Yes.

> These people are the multi-level marketers of religion.

Where do you think MLM comes from? Dude, Utah is MLM central. Several
of my immediate neighbors are from the top of the Newskin and Newways
pyramids. Believe me, the view from the top of the pyramid is pretty
nice.

>They are the charity muggers of religion. They are the supermarket hustlers of religion.

I think most missionaries would consider this a compliment...

>"would you like our free catalogue",
>"can you spare a minute for human rights across the world" ,
>"can you spare two pounds a month for children in africa" ,
>"have you heard of the book of mormon?" -

> I can't walk through my town without being harassed. At first I felt guilty
> for telling the student fundraisers that I no longer cared if a child starved,
> their parents will have another one soon, but I realised if I am to discourage
> the street marketeers, only being gratuitously offensive works. You can try
> avoiding their gaze  or stepping around them, or polite refusals, but it
> doesn't work. You now have to walk around english towns like a New Yorker
> or a Parisian - with total disdain for anyone who gets in your way.

I think the trick is to come up with something so totally foreign to
them that you stun them into temporary paralysis, giving you time to
effect your escape. Like, "No, but I know a lot about Satanism, Would
you like to come to next Friday's ritual sacrifice? I promise, we
won't sacrifice you." Or, "Yes, I know a lot about Mormonism... What
do you know about mitochondrial DNA evidence relating to Native
Americans... you're aware that they came from Asia, not Jerusalem,
right?" Or, "No, I'd love to hear more, can you come give a
presentation to our nudist group next Thursday? We have a 'Thursday
raw' get together every other week, and we would love for you to
present. You don't have a problem presenting nude, do you?"

> There have always been people handing you fliers that would surely all end up
> in bins, people trying to hustle you to buy, but now I get people trying to
> emotionally blackmail me for charity and mormons offering eternal life at
> the low, low price of just one soul plus tax (well, a tithe).

Not a cheap religion to belong to... :-)

>  Damn you ever-increasing street marketeers and door-to-door salesmen,
> and I curse the mormon system that forces the young to go out and recruit
> for a couple of years before they can get a proper job.

Actually, for the young men, I think it's a great experience. They
learn the hardest part of entrepreneurship... sales, with it's
rejection. We also end up with a global knowledge that is really
unusual in the USA. The number of languages spoken in Utah is
astonishing. I am tri-lingual... that would never have happened to me
without that experience.

While it's irritating for the public, it is, by and large, a good
experience for the missionaries themselves.

> PS that was a lot of rage vented. The first person to invent "Minority Report"
>style billboards will need to go into hiding from me.

Vent on!!! In reality, I just feel sorry for the young guys... they
are victims of a terribly pernicious mind virus. It's very hard to
shake. Took me 45 years to get the dang bug out of my head.

-Kelly




More information about the extropy-chat mailing list