[ExI] de Waal

[William Flynn Wallace]

>
> *​> ​I fail to see how all those statistics you gave about the Muslims
> support your case for genetics.   bill w*
>

​But it does support my case that I wasn't ​
​stereotyping Muslims as you claimed I was, ​
john

Nope - you did not react to my statement that Muslim terrorists were a very
tiny part of the Muslim world, no matter what people say on surveys.  A few
thousand out of a billion Muslims - yes, that's stereotyping   bill w

Yes, people learn quite well starting from before birth.  But that does not
make a case for genetic tendencies to learn from parents and to obey them.
A generalized learning ability, genetic, of course, can take care of that
easily. (There are specialized ones, too, like in prepared learning -
phobias). It is also easy to learn contrary opinions from others.  What do
tots and teens think when their parents disagree?  When the parents
disagree with the holy person?

They grow up confused with all the opinions available, and that's why we
think teens are confused -they are.  They have learned some contradictory
things from parents and other adults.  But a main form of their learning,
as several books show, including Judith Harris', is from peers.  Peers,
while one is a teen, outrank everybody, despite the clear fact that one's
peers often don't know any more than the person does, and is very often
wrong (I taught sex.  I know how wrong they can be and where they got that
'knowledge'. Not from adults.)

If there is any genetic tendency to hear and obey parents, it's mostly gone
by the teen years.

Religions survive, I think, because of social pressure of one kind or
another - family, mostly, including extended family.

What does a person say when he is asked, or asks himself, just who he is?
Religions affiliation is usually noted, if not first, then, shortly
thereafter.  Family, tribe, state, nation, etc.  All exerting social
pressure to be like the others in your affiliations.

bill w


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:07 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:08 PM, William Flynn Wallace <
> foozler83 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ​>>​
>>> ​
>>>  if the devout didn't think the very young didn't have such a tendency
>>> they would not place such emphasis on having religious grade schools and
>>> even religious kindergarten.
>>
>>
>> ​>* ​*
>> *I'd say that that was a good argument for the opposite: believing that
>> environment had to install the values. *
>>
>
> I'd say the environment had to install the values​ too, and the most
> important part of that environment is what adults say. And what adults say
> now depends on what their mommy and daddy ​said to them many years before.
>
>
>> *​> ​and I'll bet it doesnt' work very well.*
>
>
> *WHAT?!* If indoctrinating the young didn't work extraordinarily well how
> on earth could Christianity have survived for 2000 years when it doesn't
> make one particle of sense? Think about it,  God is homicidally angry with
> the entire human race because one man was naughty and ate an apple when
> told not to, and even though He is omnipotent He is unable to forgive them
> unless they torture His son, who He loves very much, to death. Only after
> they've finished with the butchery and His son has died in agony can the
> atrocity of eating the apple be forgiven
>
>
>> *​> ​I fail to see how all those statistics you gave about the Muslims
>> support your case for genetics. *
>>
>
> ​But it does support my case that I wasn't ​
> ​stereotyping Muslims as you claimed I was, ​
>
> ​>​
>>  *People are not sheep.*
>
>
> ​The two things are not identical but there are certainly similarities .​
>
>
>
>> *​> ​you don't need genes here except for those involved in learning,
>> esp. social learning - who tells who what to do is noticed by tots and up. *
>>
>
> If the tots didn't believe that what they were told was true there would
> be nothing to learn socially. ​
>
> John K Clark
>
>
>
>
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