[ExI] teachers

[Adrian Tymes]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 7:11 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:25 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 9:53 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 12:14 AM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 8:26 AM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
>>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also disagree with the assessment that MW is not falsifiable. If we
>>>>> run a conscious mind on a quantum computer, and the quantum computation
>>>>> fails due to the consciousness of the mind on the computer causing
>>>>> collapse, and it eliminates the interference pattern, then MW is falsified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is David Deutsch's description of the experiment:
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/4rrNMdbmSsHGsLkh9
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How is MW falsified in this case?  There can exist events which are the
>>>> same in all worlds that had the same starting condition,  and we would
>>>> never  know.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's only falsified if the interference pattern isn't restored after
>>> quantum erasing the conscious observer's mind.
>>>
>>> Collapse theories say collapse happens by the time or during conscious
>>> observation, and that it is irreversible and destroys the interference
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> MW on the other hand does not say (apparent) collapse is irreversible,
>>> but that everything is linear, continuous and time reversible.
>>>
>>
>> What about MW says things are time reversible?
>>
>
> Everything in physics is time reversible (more accurately is CPT symmetric
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPT_symmetry ), with the sole except
> being objective wave function collapse as found in CI.
>
> Take out wave function collapse, and everything in physics becomes
> deterministic, reversible, causal, linear, local, and speed-of-light
> obeying again.
>

Not so much, unless you're broadly defining "wave function collapse" as
everything in physics that is undeterministic et al.  For instance, I have
not often heard the exact timing of atomic decay to be any sort of wave
function collapse, yet it does not appear to be deterministic.  (It is
technically possible to jam the emitted particle back into the source atom,
which I suppose makes it reversible.)  There are also many discontinuities,
across a number of domains, that break linear models.

Also, you avoided the question.  WHAT IS IT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MW IN
PARTICULAR, as distinct from everything in physics, that has this property
and that other quantum theories do not?  There appear to exist theories of
multi-worlds that are entirely compatible with the existence of wave
function collapse, therefore, proving or disproving the existence of wave
function collapse fails to prove or disprove multi-worlds in general.


> If a collapse is subsequently observed, can't one simply claim the erasure
>> hasn't happened?
>>
>
> I am not sure I understand what you are asking, but if the reversal
> process fails, and we can't get the electron back into a superposition, it
> would be evidence of the reality of collapse, and MW would be refuted.
>

1) MW-with-collapse wouldn't be refuted.

2) I mean, this seems susceptible to a "no true X" fallacy.  "Just because
THIS experiment showed collapse, doesn't mean the experiment wouldn't work
if done properly.  Since there was collapse, obviously there was no quantum
erasure.  Keep doing the experiment until it shows what we want, and
discard all contrary results."  How do you conclusively show there was
erasure if there was also collapse, which erasure should prevent by
definition?
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