[ExI] GPT-4 on the Incommunicability of Qulia

[Brent Allsop]

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 9:32 AM Dave S via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Right, so "red" is the physical property and "redness" is how an
> individual perceives it.
>
> So what is "physical greenness"?
>

Close, but no, you're making the same circular mistake everyone here seems
to be making, and not defining redness.    I pointed out this error to
Gadersd in the other thread:


On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 9:00 AM Gadersd via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Can anyone give a better (non circular) definition of a quality?
>
>
> A quality is a particular configuration of particle interactions. We do
> not know which configuration of particle interactions corresponds to
>
your perception of red because that must be experimentally determined.
>

Close, but  No, this is still circular.  "perception" is an abstracting
process that requires senses, like eyes or ears.
It is a long chain of causal physical properties, none of which need to be
'redness' but all can be interpreted as representing 'redness' with a
dictionary.
Perceptions are just interpretations of interpretations, none of which
define what redness means.
[image: 3_functionally_equal_machines_tiny.png]

All 3 of these systems can perceive 'red'.  But only the first to know what
redness is like (the second one's redness is like your greenness.)

For each point of conscious knowledge on the surface of that strawberry,
the first one has  something in its brain that has a redness quality.
The second one has the same, the difference is, each point has something
that has your greenness quality.  The 3rd one has a bunch of pixel
representations,
each of which is represented by something abstract, like the word 'red'.

You don't 'perceive' redness, you directly apprehend it as a quality of
your computationally bound conscious  knowledge.  A quality is a physical
property of which conscious experience is composed.
Redness is the final result of perception.


Something in your brain has a physical greenness quality.  In other words,
something in your brain is behaving the way it does, because of its
greenness quality.
For each pixel of visual knowledge of 'green' you have, your perception
system renders that into your conscious experience.
We simply don't yet know which of all our descriptions of stuff in your
brain, is a description of your greenness, simply because we lack the right
dictionary.
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