[extropy-chat] Re: [medusers] Right to choose .... a new paradigm shift

Thu Oct 7 14:38:59 UTC 2004

Extropian Agroforestry Ventures Inc. wrote:

> This snippet of chat from the extropian group touches on the focal point
> , it's not CDSA or prescriptive
> access but ........   should any  third party have greater power or
> exclusive rights  to dictate what a person should , will or cannot
> consume  than that individual themselves.
>
> We are really discussing the rights we have given to the state to
> override the rights of the individual.   It can be argued
> a sophisticated 21st century citizen should have full right to be
> protected against the state's more's when dealing with thier own body. 
> The proviso here is that the individual must pay for such non-authorized
> procedures, augnmentations (mechanical, chemical or otherwise)
> themselves just as persons wishing cosmetic surgery must.   Ownership
> over one's body is the issue.  Even an MD cannot self-prescribe.  All
> one has to do is remove from law , the medical privacy laws from medical
> choices made when citizens self-prescribe as opposed to the privacy laws
> when a third party authorized by the state prescribes and an new check
> and balance based on individual freedoms might result?
>
> I think Society/State has come to assume that socialist protections
> allow borgian assimilation and have not contemplated that
> just the opposite, an empowerment of individuality might result.
>
> Trend Ologist writes:
>
> >> It is time we let go of outdated doctor-patient relationships. Having
> >> one doctor write a prescription for a certain medication for one 
> patient
> >> is so last-week, so old hat. This is the 21st century, we've got to do
> >> the In thing, get with the New, the Now.
> > 
> >
>
> I assume you are being facetious, and you actually believe that people
> should be legally prevented from making their own decisions about what
> substances to put into their bodies?
>
> Would you extend this to extropian augmentations?  Do you think that
> society should hold veto power over whether you can choose to enhance
> your intelligence or emotional stability?
>
> I know there are those who say that libertarianism is passe in
> transhumanist thought.  To me, it is a fundamental part of extropian
> philosophy that individuals have the right to enhance their own minds and
> bodies, even if society disapproves.  I'd be curious to hear from those
> who see themselves as extropian but who believe that these decisions
> should be made collectively, aiming at maximizing the social welfare.
>
> Hal
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> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo/extropy-chat
>
>
> Space Tourism Faces Safety Regulations
>
> 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
> 	
> Add to My Yahoo! 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/addtomy/*http://add.my.yahoo.com/content?id=6200&.src=yn&.done=http%3a//news.yahoo.com/news%3ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20041007/ap_on_sc/space_tourism_regulation%26cid=624%26ncid=716> 
> 	 Science - AP 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/addtomy/*http://add.my.yahoo.com/content?id=6200&.src=yn&.done=http%3a//news.yahoo.com/news%3ftmpl=story%26u=/ap/20041007/ap_on_sc/space_tourism_regulation%26cid=624%26ncid=716> 
>
>
> By JOHN ANTCZAK, Associated Press Writer
>
> LOS ANGELES - Thrill seekers are plunking down six figures to ride 
> rockets that haven't even been built yet, and a new airline called 
> Virgin Galactic promises to be up and soaring in the next three years. 
> Still, the budding space tourism industry faces a myriad of safety 
> concerns -- in the sky and on the ground -- that must be resolved 
> before any paying passenger takes off.
>
> Photo 
> <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041007/480/la10610070312>
> AP Photo 
> <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041007/480/la10610070312>
>
>
>
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/techtues/p_story/*http://news.yahoo.com/techtuesday/> 
>
> Missed Tech Tuesday? 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/techtues/p_story/*http://news.yahoo.com/techtuesday/>
> It's cheap and easy to buy components 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/techtues/p_story3/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ttzd/20040928/tc_techtues_zd/136122&cid=1739&ncid=1729>, 
> and build 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/techtues/p_story1/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ttzd/20040928/tc_techtues_zd/136111&cid=1739&ncid=1729> 
> and customize 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/techtues/p_story2/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ttzd/20040928/tc_techtues_zd/136123&cid=1739&ncid=1729> 
> your own PC.
>
>
> 	 
>
> The rules that will govern the industry in the United States remain 
> under discussion between federal regulators and rocket developers, and 
> legislation is still before Congress.
>
> The pace of negotiations and the ultimate shape of the regulations 
> could determine whether the sky-high enthusiasm for space tourism -- 
> fueled by the historic suborbital flights of SpaceShipOne -- grows or 
> wanes, especially among investors.
>
> Federal Aviation Administration (news 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22Federal%20Aviation%20Administration%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw> 
> - web sites 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=Federal%20Aviation%20Administration>) 
> chief Marion C. Blakey this week visited Xcor Aerospace, a rocket 
> developer just down the Mojave Airport flight line from SpaceShipOne's 
> home. She talked of partnership with the new industry and said it was 
> important for the United States to be the world leader.
>
> She made clear, however, that broad safety issues are the agency's 
> topic No. 1.
>
> "Our first concern will be the safety of the uninvolved public, making 
> sure that as this grows and develops that we're doing everything we 
> can to protect the folks on the ground, to make sure that the people 
> who go into space understand the risks," she said. "It will be a risky 
> business for many years to come, no doubt."
>
> The FAA (news 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?fr=news-storylinks&p=%22FAA%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw> 
> - web sites 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=web-storylinks&p=FAA>) 
> for several years has been studying what the average passenger will 
> face from G-force and psychological factors, and what type of medical 
> fitness he or she will require, Blakey said.
>
> There is also a question of what information a passenger should have, 
> about safety records, for example, to assess risk and make a 
> meaningful informed-consent statement.
>
> Patti Grace Smith, associate administrator for the FAA's office of 
> commercial space transportation, indicated passenger awareness is one 
> of the "hurdles" in the way of making space travel as routine as 
> aviation.
>
> "The kind of threshold that we will have to figure out how to achieve 
> is the cognizance issue: How do we know that they understand the risk 
> that they are taking? How do we know that they understand what they're 
> doing?" she said.
>
> Xcor President Jeff Greason, who hopes to build a rocket plane that 
> can fly off a runway, said talks with the government have come far but 
> there is much work ahead on the regulatory front.
>
> Greason said he is in total agreement that it is necessary for 
> regulators to ensure that potential passengers have adequate 
> information. But he sees a "critical distinction" between the risk 
> faced by the uninvolved public and that faced by those who want to fly 
> into space.
>
> "The uninvolved public has to be held to a very high level of safety," 
> he said. "There's no reason they should be exposed to a level of risk 
> that's different than they see from any other aspect of industrial life.
>
> "The involved passenger, the people who are deliberately putting their 
> lives and treasure at risk to open the space frontier they've dreamed 
> of their entire lives, as long as they know what they're getting into, 
> I think they have to be allowed to take that risk."
>
> One of the nation's advantages, he asserted, is that there is still a 
> "culture of risk acceptance as long as it's only for the participant."
>
> Blakey believes that passengers through many years of airline travel 
> have developed an expectation of a certain amount of regulatory 
> oversight.
>
> "What that should be in commercial space, we're working with right 
> now. And as I say, we definitely see that the level of risk is very 
> different," she said.
>
>
> 	 
>
> Greason said commercial space transportation, for it to succeed, has 
> to chart new ground to improve the level of safety set by government 
> programs such as the space shuttle.
>
> "That means the classic regulatory prescriptive approach of 'We'll do 
> it just like all those other successful very safe personal space 
> transportation vehicles' can't work," he said. "It's a paradoxical, 
> hard to understand thing, but in order to achieve greater safety, we 
> have to allow many approaches to be tried, because only in that way 
> can we find out experimentally those which offer greater safety."
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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