[ExI] "thoughts to live by" regarding youth subculture

Gina Miller nanogirl at halcyon.com
Tue Nov 11 04:59:00 UTC 2008

Here is the important truth, we are all people. And we are all complex people who have had varied experiences in our lives. What makes people identify with a certain culture is just as complex and varied as our individual lives. We have to be careful about trying to "figure out large groups of people" based on their outward appearance, so that we do not make generalizations. What makes you pick out a pair of pants? Even if you select a piece of low key clothing, why do you select low key clothing? That could be analyzed just as much as the opposite. Why do people choose to be safe or not color outside of the lines? Everyone's external can be psychoanalyzed in this way, if you want to. And what do you think the alternative groups could think of the conservative appearance, they could judge it as "normal', the standard quo, followers, no individuality, the establishment, and no voice. 

Certainly some people may identify with a subculture with the point of trying to say something, maybe it's that they need more attention and love because they are not getting enough, perhaps there is something in their life - unseen to us that they are rebelling against, maybe the mainstream kids picked on them when they were a kid so they are going all the way in the opposite direction, maybe their family was that way, but... maybe they are artists, maybe it's an esthetic preference, or a political statement, maybe they just like being an individual, there are so many possibilities and we can analyze for days. But I don't think we need to, and no matter how some one cuts their hair, what they are wearing or what music they listen to, that is all very external. What matters is behavior and trust me, all types of people have both good and bad behavior. 

All that aside, there is enough real material out there that we can examine, human rights, pollution, hunger, poverty, and all of our wonderful extropian dreams for the future. How can we help people, how can we help the world. And let's not forget, the world is full of people who look so beautifully different from one another. 

Gina "Nanogirl" Miller
Nanotechnology Industries
Personal: http://www.nanogirl.com 
The health stuff blog: http://ginamiller.blogspot.com/ 
Animation Blog: http://maxanimation.blogspot.com/ 
Craft blog: http://nanogirlblog.blogspot.com/ 
Foresight Senior Associate http://www.foresight.org 
Email: nanogirl at halcyon.com 
"Nanotechnology: Solutions for the future."

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Grigg 
  To: ExI chat list 
  Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [ExI] "thoughts to live by" regarding youth subculture

  Spike wrote:
  Come now Johnny, I know you personally and I know you are the nicest guy on ExI-chat.  Many women would be thankful to have you and wouldn't break your heart.  Be sure you are looking for them in the right places pal.  Someone out there who knows a single young lady of transhumanist mindset, do have them contact John Grigg.  I can assure them they will not be disappointed.

  This is very high praise, indeed!  I'm blushing!  : )  Thanks, Spike.

  Dagon, your comments and links about the Goth subculture were fascinating to me.  I did not think of Goths as  "losers"  but did assume they reveled in a rich but negative fantasy life and were snobbish & not necessarily the upwardly mobile to the extent you say.  I had the mainstream American public's opinion of Goths (probably coming from the lyrics and imagery of various bands), rather than having an insider's take on things.  I wonder to what extent European Goth culture differs from the American?  But I would like one day to get an Emo's perspective on this discussion, considering what you said.

  I tend to agree with you that even the supposedly spoiled (and in some ways they are) youth of the 1st world have it actually pretty hard.  Japanese young people are in my view at the forefront of this, but all kids in the developed world feel the pressure to fit in, compete and perform educationally and professionally in a very competitive society, and yet also have a personal/spiritual/family life that matters.  Some youth have the right combination of nature & nurture (or at least nature) to succeed in our demanding and high-tech environment, but there are quite a few who just don't have what it takes to make it and get their slice of the American Pie.

  But I do admit that being a citizen of the 1st world pressure cooker is *vastly* better than living in a Latin American, Asian or African ghetto where basic medicine, healthy and plentiful food, civil liberties, adequate shelter and education are only a dream.  But many living legally in our "wondrous" 1st world still don't have all their basic living needs met. 

  Dagon wrote:
  Here's how the biggest goth of the known universe, the inventor of the whole vampire thing turned out: Used to hang with him in Amsterdam a while:

  How did your friend wind up inventing the whole Goth/vampire thing?   He sounds like quite an individual! 

  you wrote:
  He had girls so pretty, so kinky, so amazingly attractive you'd swallow your words in a second. And he got loaded of selling vampire parafernalia, teeth and lenses.

  The women were drawn to him because he played the role of the "vampire lord?"  Good looks? Charm? Intelligence? Lots of money?  I have read females tend to be very attracted to creative/artistic men.  I suppose the first substantially enhanced transhumans will have an even greater attraction to potential lovers.

  you continue:
  As an another example, here is an example why some goth chicks drive me insane with desire.

  She is gorgeous.  The Goth look for a women (at least to me) is extremely seductive and enhances female physical beauty.   Again, I can envision genetically modified women in the decades ahead who will embody the Goth ideal of beauty as no one really could in our present time.  I hope you are able to handle it when you are driven *past* the point of insanity! lol 

  Based on what you said regarding the "Goth work ethic," it sounds like I should tell my brother to encourage his son (when he gets old enough) to become a member of this subculture!  And to think that in the old days kids became Boy Scouts for a leg up in life!  ; )



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