[ExI] Single Payer Healthcare

Dan TheBookMan danust2012 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 28 22:56:39 UTC 2017

On Mar 28, 2017, at 2:38 PM, John Clark <johnkclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017  Dan TheBookMan <danust2012 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  ​> ​As I asked before, you'd have to do a little more analysis, such as looking at historical rates of longevity.
> ​The USA has gone backward. In 1960 

Note the changes in medical legislation from 01956 onward. Would you say that has nothing to do with this?

> the USA had the 16th longest lived people, in 2015 they had the 31th longest lived. 
> http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/history-of-life-expectancy.​ 

Was there more or less federal involvement in healthcare before 01960? If you're going to use simplistic reasoning here, then please use it across the board. ;)

Also, I'm saying we look at all the nations under discussion. If you want to try to figure out causes, don't you agree we need to do this? Or is it just find the statistic you like and stick with that? Do you want to do data analysis or just do pretend science by factoid?

>> ​>​you wouldn't want to bet people's lives on just taking a statistic out of context, would you?
> ​The average cost verses average ​life expectancy is not a out of context​ statistic, and yes I'd bet my life on that.​

You can bet your life on it, though the problem here, for me, is betting everyone else's life and freedom on it.

(I know you'll misread this too. I'm not arguing the US system is free. It's definitely one of huge government intervention. In many ways, more than many other Western nations.)

>> ​> ​Have you also looked at nations that have shorter than the US life expectancy to see if they all don't have single payer systems?
> ​What could we learn from that? You'd expect countries that spend less on healthcare would have shorter lived citizens​,​ and every country in the world spends less than the USA, the ​big ​surprise is the 30 countries that spend significantly less but live longer, and it is from them we should look. ​

My point is you have to look at more than just tote factoid. In this case, you'd have to make sure you're comparing like to like... Let me try another example that you'll ignore, but others might benefit from. Smoking rates are lower in the US than in Japan. The Japanese life expectancy is higher. Would you argue we should get US-Americans to smoke more? I hope not. (I'm not, for the record, saying the cases are exactly the same. The presumption is smoking causing mortality and more healthcare causes more health. The problem in both cases is that other things cause mortality and changes in health.)

>> ​> ​I'd also be careful of accusing people of being emotionally attached or ideologically driven when they disagree with you.
> ​Be honest Dan, if the 30 single payer countries I mentioned spent twice as much on healthcare as the USA and yet their citizens had shorted lives than the USA would you be complaining about  sampling errors​ and​​ ​experimental​​ bias? We both know you wouldn't. ​

To be honest, John, it's not entirely honest on your part to avoid my questions based on how you feel I might have answered were the data different. In a word, you're sidestepping in inconvenient questions. If you're only interested in pretending you're objective, logical, and scientific here, please continue to attack others rather than answer substantive issues they raise.


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