[ExI] housing again, was RE: sex again

Sat Dec 14 20:08:39 UTC 2019

To take the example of that apartment, no dishwasher - just the sink - and
a single professional female adult moved in quite readily, not stretching
disbelief in the slightest.  Likewise, very few electric kitchen gadgets:
we see her using a microwave oven, and that's it.  She does not demonstrate
advanced cooking skills; if she wants a cake, she would buy one, not make
it.

I think it might help to focus on "person", not "woman".  That is, the
needs of a single working individual regardless of gender.  This, too, is
one of the changes since the times of old: many women are living on their
own and focused on careers; the needs and wants of such women are not
substantially different from those of men in the same position.

On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 11:18 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Adrian, I cannot tell from your answers just what tech has reduced, to use
> Spike's word, as a household need.
>
> Certainly a hot water heater and a shower have eliminated having a big
> washtub and a wood fire to heat the water, but you need a lot more
> plumbing, and money.  A dryer has reduced the need to hang clothes on racks
> in front of the fireplace at a greater cost (I assume we are ignoring
> increased costs).  A dishwasher has reduced labor.  Electric kitchen
> gadgets have reduced labor.  Entertainments systems have reduced the need
> to get in the buggy and drive to town.  Air conditioners have reduced the
> labor of fanning yourself by hand.  Modern insulation has reduced the need
> to save newspaper to stuff in cracks.  I'd better quit.  Note that all of
> the modern stuff is now regarded as needs, not wants.  What women would
> move in without all of the above - and more?
> bill w
>
> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 12:44 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Depends on the woman.  I am immediately reminded of Judy's apartment from
>> Zootopia - a fairly minimalist set of furnishings, to support a single
>> person.  (Modulo what all the "people" in Zootopia are, but the concept
>> mirrors over to real life well enough.)  Notably, the furnishings would not
>> have differed to support a male individual.
>>
>> See
>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/50/72/0f5072667904efa1e778cdc2e0b722bf.jpg for
>> one design, though I think the actual apartment in the movie was even more
>> austere.  On this floorplan I see a bed, a desk, a TV for entertainment,
>> food prep & storage, clothing storage, and presumably the inner door leads
>> to a basic washroom with at least a toilet and sink, likely a small shower
>> too.  (Though this also has running water, electricity, and a no-dirt
>> floor.)  Occasional services such as laundry are presumably provided
>> elsewhere in or near the apartment building on a community basis (such as a
>> laundromat).
>>
>> Certainly the food prep and storage area, at least, is dramatically
>> smaller than would have been needed back in the 1700s.  Back then, such
>> needs did not scale down to a single person very well, and a typical single
>> person accommodation would have been an entire cabin.  Of course, back then
>> high-rise apartment buildings did not exist either.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 10:14 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Needs?  Whose needs?  Just answer this question:
>>>
>>> What are the things that a house (we are ignoring the outside, the yard,
>>> right?) has to have for a women to move into it.  We can omit those things
>>> that our forefathers (foremothers?) would have said, like running water and
>>> electricity and a no-dirt floor.  bill w
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2019 at 11:40 AM spike jones via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: spike at rainier66.com <spike at rainier66.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:14 AM
>>>> To: 'ExI chat list' <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>>>> Cc: 'BillK' <pharos at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: RE: [ExI] sex again
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>> BillK via extropy-chat
>>>> Subject: Re: [ExI] sex again
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2019 at 15:43, spike jones via extropy-chat
>>>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Move to the Bay Area?  This place is already the Star Wars Bar when it
>>>> comes to diversity.  Others will already be comfortable with whatever
>>>> you
>>>> want to be.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Surely you jest?  At those prices?
>>>> <
>>>> https://www.newser.com/story/283270/to-afford-the-bay-area-he-lived-in-32-s
>>>> quare-feet.html
>>>> <https://www.newser.com/story/283270/to-afford-the-bay-area-he-lived-in-32-square-feet.html>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BillK
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >...BillK, I will certainly admit life in the fast lane has is
>>>> compromises.
>>>> It was a big step down in standard of living for my bride and me when we
>>>> came to the Bay in 1989.  Our living arrangements went from this:
>>>>
>>>> https://dianaoverbey.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/highclerecastle.jpg
>>>>
>>>> to this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0415-sjm-l-birdave-041
>>>> 3-1.jpg?w=467
>>>> <https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0415-sjm-l-birdave-0413-1.jpg?w=467>
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> The second link didn't come thru before.  Trying again:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0415-sjm-l-birdave-041
>>>> 3-1.jpg?w=467
>>>> <https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/0415-sjm-l-birdave-0413-1.jpg?w=467>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been toying with an idea I wanted to bounce offa you.
>>>>
>>>> Things are very different now than when I started engineering.  At
>>>> Lockheeed
>>>> often a ranking engineer would have his desk, a drawing board, a flat
>>>> file
>>>> (ja I know you went to google because you never saw one of those), a
>>>> typewriter desk, filing cabinets, a safe (for classified documents) a
>>>> cabinet for drafting tools, perhaps several other pieces of equipment
>>>> modern
>>>> engineers couldn't even name and had never seen.
>>>>
>>>> In my last assignment at that company, I inherited the office of Jerry
>>>> Wozniak, who retired a multimillionaire for reasons having little to do
>>>> with
>>>> this job there but you likely already know by his name.  We got rid of
>>>> most
>>>> of the outdated equipment in there and moved more guys in.  There were
>>>> four
>>>> engineers in that office and we still had pleeeeennnty of room.  We even
>>>> kept Jerry's outdated filing cabinet just because it had his name on it.
>>>> Hell of a nice guy he was.  Never a bit crowded in that office with the
>>>> four
>>>> engineers desks and some of Jerry's old stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Reason: that list of stuff from Jerry Wozniak's era was all made
>>>> obsolete by
>>>> Jerry's son's invention.
>>>>
>>>> OK then, let's think it over and see if our housing needs were reduced
>>>> by
>>>> technology.  I would argue that they are.
>>>>
>>>> Before I present my notions, I will offer a chance for you to think it
>>>> over
>>>> and post ideas.
>>>>
>>>> spike
>>>>
>>>>
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