[ExI] Uploads

[Ben Zaiboc]

On 01/04/2020 14:17, Keith Henson wrote:
> Ben Zaiboc<ben at zaiboc.net>  wrote:
>
> snip
>
>> Ah, I see.
>> OK, that's not a problem with stories about uploads per se., it's a
> problem with stories about anything more intelligent than the author (or
> the readers). And it only holds true for uploads if you assume they will
> inevitably be more intelligent (I'm not saying that's not a fair
> assumption, just pointing it out).
>
> There would seem to be little reason to upload if the process didn't
> make you more intelligent.
>
>> The solution is simply to write about uploads that are not more
> intelligent than you are.
>
> That works if you are just interested in writing stories.  It doesn't
> work so well when you are trying to depict a post-singularity world.
> All I could do in the story I wrote was to hint that the AI/uploads
> who are assumed to be in control of the world had decided to stabilize
> the human population.  Why?  Unknown, sentimental reasons perhaps.
>
> snip
>
>> Telling stories isn't an exercise
> in trying to get things right, or predicting the future.
>
> In most cases this is true.  I, on the other hand, strive for
> plausibility in the context of the early discussions on this list.
>
>> I'd be quite
> happy to read good stories about uploads that are no more intelligent
> than I am, and I think it would be a worthwhile effort, because it's a
> way to familiarise readers with some concepts that they may otherwise
> find bizarre and uncomfortable (and frightening) when they actually turn
> up in real life.
>
> That's Accelerando.  Have you read it?  Stross was a regular on this
> last way back in the dark ages.
>
>> That seems to me a very good reason for writing such stories, no matter
> how unrealistic they might be in terms of the psychology and motivations
> of real uploads. If you want to frighten people and foster resistance to
> a new idea, keep it unfamiliar, unknowable and intrinsically different
> to what they know. I suggest doing the opposite with the idea of
> uploading. I'd rate the chances of successful acceptance far higher if
> there was at least a segment of society (beyond geeks like us) who find
> the idea of uploading exciting, full of possibilities, something to look
> forward to (even if they think it's all a bit pie-in-the-sky) than if
> the only exposure to the idea that most people had was from the luddites
> and bioconservatives, etc.
>
> We are a long way from marketing uploads.  However, I suspect that it
> will require being able to try reversible uploading.
>
>> I just wish I had some skill as an author, or I'd be doing it myself!
> This is a bad topic to try to write about.  It is hard to work in a
> story arc.  In fact, The Clinic Seed does not have much of a story
> arc.


"That works if you are just interested in writing stories. It doesn't 
work so well when you are trying to depict a post-singularity world".

Indeed. I wouldn't even think of trying to depict a post-singularity 
world. I maintain, though, that good stories that present uploading in a 
positive light would be worth writing.

"That's Accelerando. Have you read it? Stross was a regular on this last 
way back in the dark ages."

Absolutely. Several times (as well as 'Scratch Monkey', and 'Singularity 
Sky', and others, all of which I recommend: 
https://graycity.net/charles-stross/484615-scratch_monkey.html).

It was the first real illustration to me of how giving things away for 
free can actually generate a living for an author. I first read it 
online, for free. Then, a while later, I read it from printouts I'd 
made, at the cost of the printer paper. A while after that, I bought the 
paperback on Amazon and read it a third time. Something I'd probably 
never had done if it hadn't been available in full online in the first 
place. If Charlie is still lurking here (I know he used to), thanks to 
him for both things, the story and the lesson.

However, good as it was, I don't think it was so good at promoting 
uploading. Not in the way I'm thinking about, anyway.


"This is a bad topic to try to write about. It is hard to work in a 
story arc".

Damn, that sounds like a challenge to me.


-- 
Ben Zaiboc

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20200403/f7f2e704/attachment.htm>