[ExI] Free will was: Everett worlds

Stathis Papaioannou stathisp at gmail.com
Wed Aug 19 04:00:12 UTC 2020


On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 10:01, Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> Quoting John Clark:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 8:49 AM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
>
> > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >> * > When either you or I measure the spins of an entangled pair
>
> >> of electrons from light years apart, we collapse the wave function by
> doing
>
> >> so but SOMETHING decides whether we observe the spins as up-down or
> down-up*
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If Many Worlds is right then NOTHING decides if John Clark observes spin
> up
>
> > or spin down because John Clark observes both, the particle John Clark is
>
> > observing splits and so does John Clark.
>
>
>
> Yes, John, I get that. What I am asking how does the wave function,
>
> whether it is a physical wave or an abstract mathematical wave, split
>
> universes and ensure that both John Clarks see what they are supposed
>
> to see? Everett's theory simply replaces spooky action at a distance
>
> with spooky accounting at a distance. Another related question would
>
> be where does the wave function reside such that it can split
>
> universes and apportion the results properly to the different universes?
>
>
>
> > Schrodinger's wave equation is purely deterministic and so the Multiverse
>
> > must be too. If a particle that is in a spin zero state decays and I
>
> > observed that one of the decay particles is spin up then I must be in a
>
> > universe where it's brother particle is spin down and it makes no
>
> > difference if the particle is a billion light years away because the
>
> > Schrodinger wave equation forbids anything else.
>
>
>
> In physics, physical laws in the form of mathematical equations
>
> usually describe phenomena and predict the outcomes of those
>
> phenomena. In MWI, the Schrodinger equation does not seem to just
>
> predict and describe outcomes but actually seems to literally cause
>
> those outcomes since nothing physical can travel faster than light or
>
> transcend universes to cause the observed quantum states. How does
>
> math cause anything except within minds and computers?
>
>
>
> >
>
> >> *> you are left with the mystery of unitarity. That is to say, how do
>
> >> different universes containing the same particle in different quantum
>
> >> states always know how to be different from their sister universes if
> the
>
> >> universes cannot communicate with one another?*
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The particles are correlated but they are not in communication with one
>
> > another, you can't use quantum entanglement to send messages faster than
>
> > light.
>
>
>
> Agreed. The particles are not in communication with each other but
>
> they do seem to be in communication with Schrodinger's equation or the
>
> wave function it describes. That is what I mean.
>
>
>
>
>
> > But if Schrodinger's Equation and thus the entire Multiverse is 100%
>
> > deterministic why involve probability at all? Because each individual
> version
>
> > of me can only see a very small slice of the multiverse, until I actually
>
> > observe the particle in question I am lacking vital information, I have
> no
>
> > way of knowing if I am in the universe that has the spin up particle or
> the
>
> > one that has spin down. Probability is necessary for predicting the
>
> > behavior of something even if it's completely deterministic if you have
>
> > incomplete information about it.
>
>
>
> That is fine, but who or what is it that ensures that each possible
>
> quantum state is manifested completely deterministically in its own
>
> universe? Determinism is about cause and effect. What is breathing
>
> fire into the Schrodinger equation such that it can deterministically
>
> cause different universes to manifest to the observer?


You could ask the same question about any physical theory. Equations
describe reality, they don’t stand over reality with a stick to ensure that
the law is obeyed.

>

-- 
Stathis Papaioannou
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